This guy has been taking pictures of the refugees in Europe and posting their stories online. It’s interesting–and moving–to see and hear from the people this is actually happening to without all the politics and arguing. I was thinking if this would make a good CoG–maybe not this exact event, but a similar big refugee movement.
That’s… quite depressing. I certainly knew that these kind of things happened but, actually hearing/reading it from the people’s perspective? That’s different. And not something I like.
When you say “not something you like,” do you mean what’s happening to these people or hearing depressing stories? (It’s ok if you don’t like hearing the depressing stories )
Both actually. While I am of the opinion that war is necessary, I still know all the atrocities, despair and sadness that it causes.
Well, what would your opinion be of a CoG about that? (That doesn’t mean I’m going to make one; I’m far too busy. I just think it’s an interesting idea.)
I follow HONY on FB.
The stories he’s covering about the refugees break my heart.
I know some people say that they have no faith in humanity but is it possible to have negative faith.
Because I have it now.
Are these people human?
I…I don’t like the thought of sharing a single gene with these people.
Not that I’m being insensitive or anything, but I’m wondering why the refugees has to go to Europe when they have like neighbouring countries to take them. Which only means that their neighbouring countries won’t take them at all and I don’t really understand why the European nations have to take the refuges because I don’t really see it as there problem.
If it was my country taking in this refuges and I see my fellow countrymen still begging for help, medicine, housing, money, or job. I’ll be pissed. Don’t get me wrong I know that they need help, but what about the people who are really citizens of the country who already begged and pleaded for help yet it was ignored.
Think of it like this, your family is starving you have food, and then comes strangers begging for food. You can’t split the food because your family will not get enough food. You can either keep the food or give it away. I won’t be plastic and say “Oh we can just split the food.” When you’re in that situation I don’t think that will really work. I’ll keep my family fed before I worry about any strangers.
It’s the same as taking in those refugees, sure I get it they need the help they are poor yeah yeah yeah, but why not help first your own countrymen who’ve always been there begging for help yet everyone seems to ignore. I think most if not all of the stories regarding the refuges are sugared to make people feel guilty and pity them. Hey why not give a story about that beggar across the street or that prostitute or even that addict that from the moment you lived you’ve always seen them yet everyone ignores them. Now comes refugees! “OMG! Let’s help them.” Hypocrites.
If you’re going to make it as a game go for it if that is what you really want then do it.
I sort of agree we should first focus on our own people before helping others furthermore Europe is at the end of its capacity we cant take much more people in
Remember governments are run by politicians.
And politicians love good PR.
Helping their own citizens nets less pr than helping refugees.
Sad but true.
But countries should focus on solving their problems before accepting more problems.
I am from germany, and yeah I am following it, it is on the news every day. It is interesting how the incapable Merkel government tries to fix this situation without closing the borders (Because the general opinion is that we should take on all those refugees. It is not that Germany didn´t manage situations like these in the past (Taking on a awful lot of refugees after World War II, Taking a lot of turkish immigrants in the seventies, Taking on all the population of East Germany.), in my opinion it is just or government that is totally incapable.
All the living places for refugees have to be financiated by the cities themselves. The cities never had money (most of them), so these living places are just shit (Tents, Gyms in which they would lay out a few camping beds). The whole Federation, which has a shit lot of money does only give some of it on the rarest of occassions.
Immigrants can´t take on jobs as long as their admission is still running through the infinite spaces of german administration (It should take three months, but actually it is everything from half a year to a full year) nor can they take up the government paid german lessons. All they get is 143 € (Yeah they only get money because that makes sense). Instead most of the actual work is done by private organizations. Giving clothes to refugees, giving german lessons to refugees (True story. A friend of mine those that among many others). And that´s just the issues of taking these refugees on. Not to speak of the smart minds who just want to close the border. (E.G. the “governor” of Bavaria allying with the President of Hungary)
@honeymichie The truth is the neighbouring countries already have taken most of them. There are 7.6 million displaced persons within Syria, effectively refugees in their own country.
Then there’s over 4 million in Syria’s neighbours.
1.1 million in Lebanon, a country that only had a population of 5 million to begin with so Syrian refugees are now like a sixth of the population!
2 million in Turkey, 600,000 in Jordan (whose population was already 85% Palestinian refugees from 1948), and hundreds of thousands more in Egypt, Iraq etc.
But not only can these countries not cope with the numbers, many of the refugees there have to live in inadequate and overcrowded camps. The international community has not provided the money they promised for these camps and so there isn’t enough food to go around any more. No wonder then that those who can are upping sticks and risking the trip to Europe.
People say a country like Saudi Arabia should do more (they aren’t taking any and are very wealthy) and it’s true but why would any Syrian, given the choice, choose Saudi over Europe? Syria is/was a relatively secular and westernised nation, just because they’re Muslim doesn’t mean they want to live somewhere where women have to be chaperoned everywhere or they could be executed for something trivial.
I’m from one of the country’s taking (not enough imo) refugees, Britain. We are the 6th richest country in the world, we can afford to take them and so many more than we are doing. Yes there is poverty in this country but that isn’t because there’s not enough to go around but because of the political choices of the government.
Sorry for the essay, it’s just something I feel quite strongly about and am involved in…
I live in France. Here, there’s precisely one charity dedicated to helping refugees. Just one.
The refugees in Calais are living in really shitty conditions. You see them as you’re driving from the ferry terminal. A friend of mine recently had to try to explain to his young daughters why so many kids were living in such a horrible state. He’s very actively involved in that one charity, now.
A couple of web pages I like that I’ve seen lately: -
First, the situation in Syria explained, in a comic strip: http://www.unilad.co.uk/articles/this-cartoon-succinctly-explains-the-background-to-the-syrian-conflict/
Second, a fairly inspirational response from the people of Iceland when their country committed to take in a grand total of 50 refugees: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/01/icelanders-call-on-government-to-take-in-more-syrian-refugees
You know what… we may disagree on whether or not EU countries should take in refugees but the fact is that we should aid them for purely humanitarian reasons, think of the condition they live in… can’t we all just agree to help them, so please help donate to UNHCR because their resources are being stretched to the breaking limit.
Because the rich Arab states (the Gulf States and Saudi Arabia) are essentially slave states, if they have to take in more Arabs it would shatter their social order and the Arabs there might have to start to really work for a change, or they’d have to let fellow Arabs do the work they now have Nepalese and Bangladeshi migrant workers do, but obviously under better conditions, which is something they do not want.
Currently they rely on a very delicate balance where only 10-20% of the resident population are actually citizens (who are entitled to receive the benefits of Arab socialism built on the backs of transitory migrant workers).
Martin Luther Kings words “This country has Socialism for the Rich” is much more true in the rich Arab states than it is for the US. In short the current conservative elites of the rich Arab states will do anything to hold on to their power even if that means ruthlessly letting their fellow Arabs and Fellow Muslims die (though they would no doubt rejoice should they succeed in pushing Europe in a more religious and conservative direction again).
Here you go http://www.newstatesman.com/world/middle-east/2015/09/why-aren-t-gulf-states-taking-more-syrian-refugees
The US should also take in much more of them by that reasoning, for one Bush jr. directly caused this whole mess with his personal Vendetta against Saddam, for two the US is still larger and richer (and less densely populated to boot) than nearly the whole EU combined, if there was any justice we’d be putting at least 50% of the refugees on boats to the US.
Emphasis on relative I don’t want to have to go back into the closet and re-fight all the battles the generations of my father and grandfather had to fight to gain a modicum of acceptance, just because Muslims in general do not yet accept the full diversity of the sexual spectrum and ms. Merkel wants to be canonized as a Saint. Socially I’d rather have them liberalize the rich Arab states than make sure the most socially conservative of our politicians get a stranglehold on power for the next 30-50 years, once they’re inevitably granted the right to vote.
While many of our Muslims (despite media sensationalism) were finally starting to become more moderate, aside from some young radicalized men, we are now being asked to take in a huge new influx, most of which, surprise, surprise, consists of young men prone to radicalization.
If it were up to me the EU would take in only, homosexuals, Christians and other non-Muslims (regardless of their age and gender) and Muslims only if they’re either, female, over 50 or under 10, or if they are parents and their family is coming with them. In other words not the sort of unattached young men usually prone to radicalization, they ought to go to Saudi Arabia or the Gulf States.
My opinion of a CoG? I’d find it interesting and would probably play it. One of the reasons (apart from my obvious need of learning about anything) would be that I know that this stuff will keep happening and I want to get used to it.
@CaesarCzech I think that as well which is why it makes me indifferent when I hear the situations of those refugees. I pity them yes I feel horrible about their situation, but I pity my countrymen more. I see my fellow men suffer yet my own country is ignoring them, and then here comes refugees boohoo they need help. The government gives them help yet I see my fellow men still begging and no help is/was ever given? Wow unbelievable.
@faewkless ahaha I know governments are run by politicians and PR is a must especially if votings’ or whatever the happenings are going to be that they will need the peoples’ approval. They are also
puppets, but the only difference is that they can manipulate money and ordinary folks cannot do that lols.
@AlexClifford1994 I don’t think you need to apologise since we are just sharing opinions and we’re not really going ape ape at someone. I think? Well my point is that even the GCC countries refuse them which is very ironic because they are mostly Muslim countries and they are the richest countries in this forsaken world.
Also you said it yourself
They are using the refugee label at them to get into European country because they know that they will not get anything from their fellow GCC countrymen. They are taking advantage of it. Why settle for GCC when they can have free pass to be in Europe right? It’s like skipping emigration papers to get into Europe yay! (Sorry I sound harsh, but that is only my opinion and not an attack on your view.)
@idonotlikeusernames Well GCC already has too many expats from India so they can’t really take more people. Still they are the countries that are near and that should be their responsibility yet they now close the door. Also the refugees want to go to Europe because its free pass. I mean if that was my ticket to be part of a European country then I’ll gladly cross the border. It’s the same in the states, when the Mexicans cross the border to USA. Nothing is different from what the refugee are doing. That to me is unfair and I hate that media is making them victims. Yes, I really pity them, but I pity my fellow men first before a stranger. I feel indifferent about them and I’d rather help the dude/dudette that has been begging help from my country than some stranger asking help who is not from my own country.
@Mirabella If you want to make a game about this or something go for it if that is what you feel doing. Also since everyone has different views on this you can use that for your game where people are accepting or not of the refugees of your story.
@honeymichie And that is why I’d like to see a game about this (even if it’s not a CoG). There are multiple sides to the issue, and every answer can be argued to be either the right decision or the wrong one. Why should we help these people when our own people still need help? But what will the refugees do if we don’t take them in? (Oh and btw I’m not asking around because I intend to make a game about it–pre-med stuff takes up pretty much all my time. I just wanted to hear what other people think about it. )
@Juanita Thank you for giving specifics.
@AlexClifford1994 And another thing about Saudi Arabia: even though the late King Abdullah and his government were vocally supportive of the War on Terror, there is a large extremist population amongst the general Saudi population (I wrote a paper about this). Terrorist groups often go there for fundraising and recruitment. So if the refugees are running away from extremist Islam, then Saudi Arabia is definitely not the place to go.
Okay so, I’m at Croatia and there are refugees at the borders, as well as at those of the neighbouring countries.
I’m all for helping people and I feel sorry for them. However, it’s very scary and terrifying when you have a bunch of people who are all not only unemployed but also homeless right at your doorstep - a bunch of people who could potentially turn to crime since our country is not exactly a gold mine and we have a huuuge number of unemployed and practically homeless of our own. I don’t want my child to live in an enviroment like that.
To sum up, my opinion would be I find the whole situation scary. And that I have no idea what would be the ‘right’ thing to do.
@honeymichie Right, yes, ok, sorry for saying sorry, just a British thing, we try and apologise for everything…
I think you’re slightly missing the point. They’re fleeing their country. They can decide where to run to. Why would any rational person choose to take themselves and their family to a gulf state who won’t let them in and is potentially oppressive and definitely regressive? Why would anyone do that? They wouldn’t be coming to Europe if their own country wasn’t ruined by war and the directly neighbouring countries weren’t overrun with refugees already.
And it’s by no means a ‘free pass’ to Europe, the asylum process is long and complicated and you aren’t allowed to work whilst it’s going on, living off state support of £5 a day.
@idonotlikeusernames I agree with a lot of what you say. But your last paragraph is total nonsense. Most of them are fleeing ISIS and/or the Assad regime. They are surely the anti-extremists and democrats of the future having seen first hand the devastation both threats can cause. I don’t know about you but if my brother/sister/parent etc had been killed by Islamic extremists i’d be slightly less inclined to being radicalised despite being a young man. There’s no danger of gay rights going backwards because of taking in refugees. If Germany takes in 800k that’s less than 1% of the population. Not enough to bring about that sort of change even if they actually wanted to. And it’s hardly a good idea to send those thousands of young men who you think could be radicalised to the world centre of radical islam, Saudi Arabia.
The idea that all young Muslim men are in danger of being radicalised is not only untrue but frankly offensive.