Guns of Infinity



Sure, but there’s no sign I can recall that he is opposed to the system. Cataphrak mentioned he wants to be seen more like Washington than Augustus even, for example.

So I’m not entirely sure he wants to be the White King as opposed to permanently what he was at the height (for Antar) of the war.

Which evil wizard are you referring to? Miguel or his wizards? :grinning:



Will Karol ever speak of Khorobirit?


Given the parallels between them I thought the “scrawny bookworm” thing might have gone both ways as well, but thanks for the clarification.

Alright, my new headcanon is that, in the Hero of Kendrickstone, after the wizard MC trapped Milius’s mind in the stone, Milius’s soul was transported across dimensions to possess Miguel d’al Rendower when he was an infant. You’d think this sort of transportation would have a negative effect on Milius’s mind, but his mind was already negatively affected by the teleportation stones, and as anyone who understands basic math will tell you, two negatives make a positive. Therefore, inside Miguel’s body, Milius actually became much more grounded and rational, but is still ruthless enough to have “evil wizard” status.

Miguel/Milius’s ultimate endgame is to tear down the Curtain of Storms, find his way back to the Fledgling Realms, and conquer it with Tierra’s superior weaponry, ideally before the Infinite Sea explodes in fiery conflict between Takara and Kian.

I’ve figured it out. By accidentally letting “evil wizard” slip out, Cataphrak has mistakenly revealed the one hint needed to unravel the entire plot.


@Cataphrak, I always wondered what Khorobirit honestly thinks about serfdom. He is willing to free large swathes of his serfs if they enlist in his armies as line infantry so I always wondered if he did it because he saw it as a necessity or if he had a Plantation Aristocracy view of slavery.

Or, if it was a combination of both.


Humanity has a tendency toward tribalism. I would think that an objective diffence between people that provides some kind clear benefit would play into that.


Mhm, but he could have evolved his views into a, “Baneless, while humans, still need to be led by us banebloods because we are mentally superior.” Or something along those lines, the same way we justified mass slavery.


I’m not sure if this answers anything, but I seem recall Cataphrak saying that Khorobirit’s serf line infantry are other people’s serfs - other people as in what Karol was to him.


I think that was more that he had his allies adopt his system as well. Which should be interesting to see if it becomes adopted by the other princes as a way to protect themselves against Khorobirit and his allies.


Found the post: Guns of Infinity

"he’s powerful enough to demand that his vassals provide him with serfs (note: not his own serfs)"


Yeah, which means he left his power base untouched.

Which reinforces my point that the only thing Khorobirit lost is his family and part of his pride. He pulled a Roose Bolton without knowing who he is.


His family, part of his pride, a fair amount of prestige, whatever money he spent on this…

I don’t think there’s any sense Khorobirit’s position hasn’t been hurt by losing, honestly. Not to say “crippled”, but at least “less well off”.

Of course, as far as line infantry and raising it goes, the main problem for either him or anyone else is still “Serfs having any degree of political power is a Very Bad Thing.”

I’d say the expense, but Khorobirit isn’t - as far as I know - nearly hurt or financially incompetent enough that if he really wanted to maintain a few regiments of line infantry he couldn’t figure out how. It might be a pain in the behind given how the Antari economy works, but people like Khorobirit can figure out the means.


The thing is, what Khorobirit demonstrated is his willingness to learn. He took everything the Tierrans used against previous Antari armies and created the means to counteract it. His line infantry scheme was probably done a few years before SK and he managed to shove out whole bodies of Tierran infantry regiments from entrenched positions who have been doing it for a century and a half by now. His heavy cavalry is top notched, when he understands that he needs to improve his artillery to make it more manageable for field situations and raise a regiment of light horse like the Dragoons which you can sure as hell can imagine him copying due to his history of taking what he’s learned and applying it. Khorobirit isn’t done, not by a long shot, you write him off all the time by saying, “Well he lost.”

You learn a lot by losing and Khorobirit’s history of learning from both victory and defeat is considerable enough that even if he did get weakened he is still a threat to Tierra. RTI didn’t understand the person they needed to make sure died was Khorobirit. They also didn’t comprehend the fact that Khorobirit isn’t the kind of man to sit around and not avenge his slights. He will reconstitute himself and go around and punish those who did him wrong. By proximity he’ll probably work on destroying the princes who screwed him and then move outward. Whether or not he succeeds is of course up in the air. But he sure as hell will try.


To be fair, those Tierran regiments mainly consisted of fresh-faced conscripts and demoralized veterans, everyone else in them being somewhere in the middle.

Khorobirit’s line infantry had the benefit of actually getting a tangible reward (freedom) and a position of immense respect (compared to where they were previously), which likely caused morale to skyrocket. He also probably acquired some Takaran or Tierran training manuals, and had Tierran officers/sergeants he could interrogate. They also made up only a small portion of his total force - it seemed to be sheer numbers that drove the Tierrans back than anything else.

As to the rest, the question is how much of that will he actually be able to achieve? Yes, he can still remain a threat, but we must remember he is immensely weakened right now, and he may still be reeling from the deaths of his family combined with his other defeats. It wouldn’t surprise me if his hair is starting to turn grey. While I’m sure he (or his daughter) will almost certainly get back on his feet, and I’m positive they will seek vengeance on an MC who played a starring role in Januszkovil, I think what you’re imagining here is the worst possible scenario.


Nah all he needs to do is,

Opens up a Takaran infantry drill manual from 80 years ago.

“Huh, okay.”

Has his men do the drills all day because they don’t have rights.

“Hmm, this might work.”

The thing is, he was able to nearly beat us again with only a fraction of his army as line infantry. Just imagine what he can do when he has a bigger army of line infantry, better cannons, decent cavalry, and his Church Hussars. It isn’t like he will have an army of 40,000 again. He just needs like an army of 28,000 and can go around on a tear.


He also needs to have his officers memorize how the drills are supposed to go, come up with a more organized ranking structure, and convince his officers/vassals that this is actually a good thing if he wants them to adopt it with any sort of enthusiasm. Then he needs to do the same for the artillery and light cavalry regiments he wishes to expand.

And just imagine what we can do with Garing’s rifles, female and baneless officers, dedicated light infantry regiments, a more organized chain of command, and possibly allies from the other Northern Kingdoms.

Our own technology isn’t stagnant. If Khorobirit can take a step forward despite his precarious position right now, I don’t see why we can’t take a step forward as well. No offense, but it’s almost like you’re assuming nothing will go our way but everything will go Khorobirit’s way.


The prince who was able to block any attempts at peace five years ago (in game) was either unable or unwilling to assemble yet another army capable of challenging Havenport in 612, or to shoot down peace negotiations.

I don’t know what lies ahead in five years, or ten years, and if he’s still alive in twenty (he’d be “only” sixty, so five years younger than Wulfram at Blogia) I don’t know for sure what will happen there either.

I don’t think he’s “finished”, but I don’t think he’s the indomitable, infinitely resourceful titan with infinite resources of the North.

“Just” a powerful prince is still a pretty significant figure, but it’s not the White King with a centralized Antar.

I suspect how much of that is “Yet.” depends on what Khorobirit values and cares about besides “the devastated islands formerly known as the Unified Kingdom of Tierra” and his family.

I’m going to say flat out - Khorobirit is one scary guy. But there are other people I’d describe that way, and Cazarosta hasn’t murdered my PC yet either.

In case this influences anything for anyone:



If an MC captured his daughter, will there be issues from Khorobirit later?


That look of hatred she sends you and the “she will remember this” line seem to foreshadow that either she or Khorobirit will attempt to take vengeance at some point in the future. Plus, this is an option that leaves you debt free before debt even becomes a factor. For the sake of balance, there have to be some serious consequences for it.

My advice: don’t keep Karol of Loch too close.


The problem is, that Khorobirit is the Lord and Master of his self he can decide to go about constructing the industries required for the expansion of a war effort and finance it all by himself.

Tierra is beholden to… well, the Cortes which isn’t really a vote of confidence to me considering they can and will block any reform efforts because progress is bad.

@Elfwine, so who is the protagonist? Who will be the catalyst Tierra needs to reforge it into something better than itself? Britain required France and Spain, France required Germany, Germany required a lot of people, and Russia needed Sweden and the Ottomans. Tell me, if Khorobirit isn’t the prime suspect who do you reckon it is? Takara? Kian? Why would they care, Tierra is primed for fall and it won’t take much effort.


I suspect Khorobirit has been a catalyst there, whether or not the future makes that more so or not.

Antar had nothing like him in King Alaric’s War, or if it did he wasn’t at sea.

I’m honestly more afraid Tierra will shake itself to bits than that Khorobirit will do it for the immediate future.