Guns of Infinity

gender-locked-male
multi-part
low-fantasy

#46957

That’s why we’re talking about Tierran society that does not spit on the baneless all the time and give the banebloods all the things, and not Antari society.

Tierra is a society dominated by the aristocracy, not a society where there are citizens and slaves.


#46958

I mean it depends on where the narrative is going. The Bane is fundamental to all life in the Infiniverse. I have some theories, but Tierran society might be best served by the banebloods retaining a controlling stake in political power. That may be fundamentally unjust from our perspective, but it might be a matter of survival for them.

IRL aristocratic control of society was only seen to be unjust once the justification for their political control was deemed irrelevant. I’m not sure that is the case in Tierra. Certainly wealth and political power could be more equitably distributed, but that is true of virtually every modern irl state. I don’t think most modern democracies are fundamentally unjust societies as a result of inherent unequal distribution of power.


#46959

Except those aristocrats enjoy rights and privileges that the Baneless don’t. They have wealth that the Baneless will never dream of. If it came to a legal case, the Baneblood’s word is taken over the Baneless.

Saying it’s better than Antar is setting the bar very low.


#46960

yeah but the issue with being equal is that they are inherently not equal. Their powers make them superior to baneless.


#46961

I literally just addressed that argument and why it doesn’t work.

People shouldn’t be placed on the top rung of society just because they have a very situational biological advantage.


#46962

The wealth thing isn’t necessarily true. And the banebloods having superior rights and privileges is not the same thing as “Tierran society is like Armaggedon*, with cooler fashions.”

As far as setting the bar very low, it was in regards to you saying “a society where the Banebloods hold all the power and the Baneless get spat on.” - which is a more accurate description of Antari society. Giving some rights, privileges, and opportunities to the baneless is a fundamental part of Tierran society - for example, banebloods taking up a trade being taxed severely compared to the baneless.

Is that enough to make it Just? No, but it’s certainly not “being a baneless commoner is synonymous with knowing only hunger and constant active oppression” either.

*the Warhammer 40,000 planet.


#46963

The normally tax-exempt Banebloods only have to pay taxes if they ‘stoop’ down to careers traditionally held by Baneless. How generous.

“Hunger and constant active oppression” Basically sums up the Tierran homefront throughout the Dozen Years’ War. Anyways, my original post was directed at cascat who didn’t seem to see the Baneless’s treatment as unjust.


#46964

I never understood why wizards were always advisers. If you are a super powerful wizard, and the only other wizards are your apprentices why don’t you kill the lord and take over why weren’t they in control in the first place. All magic users, in systems that don’t have everyone capable of using magic, pretty much have a monopoly on a power beyond the comprehension of normal people. If when starting my society theirs a guy that can throw fire I’m supporting that dude because the guy that can’t throw fire is gonna be turned to ash. I mean in a modern society magic power becomes less important because a gun can do pretty much what magic can do, but I mean in the society of swords and arrows their really isn’t much you can do against them.

It would probably have to be a rebellion to change society honestly.


#46965

While Wizards are often powerful, that doesn’t necessarily mean they can stand up against the army that will inevitably rise up to overthrow them. Or other wizards. Most fantasy settings place limits on the powers of their mages anyways.


#46966

That was basically the European medieval argument for the primacy of a mounted, military aristocracy, and as history has reminded us, there is always a way.


#46967

Longbowmen.

Lots and lots of longbowmen.


#46968

Unoriginal Username here. Finally got around to make a new account with an actual name, since my other account wasn’t as original as I first thought (I only got around to changing it now.)

I personally don’t like them when they are the only villain in the series. But in a series like GoT/ASoIaF where you have multiple antagonists, a few ones who are genuinely evil and not simply overly pragmatic/ruthless can actually come across as unique or even terrifying. The truth of the matter is that some people are just thoroughly screwed up.


#46969

Oh hey, my alt account’s post was finally approved.


#46970

To paraphrase something in a GURPS book (to avoid an excessively long and unnecessary quote): Because being both a wizard and a ruler means trying to do two full-time jobs, with plenty of rivals on both parts (“Better wizard” and “better ruler”) eager to take advantage of the fact you have only 24 hours a day and some of that can’t be spent being omnipotent.

That’s definitely a relevant thing for people whose ambitions aren’t overweening. It’s a lot easier to just be someone whose advice everyone takes seriously.

Not that this explains everything, of course, but it bears some thought.


#46971

So I guess my ambitious Wizard MC in Kendrickstone will never usurp Leofric?

Darn.


#46972

No he just said you’ll be a bad leader and a bad wizard


#46973

It is certainly unequal. I’m just not sure that translates to “fundamentally unjust,” and I’d agree with @Elfwine that the treatment of the baneless in Tierra does not seem to be as bad as you are characterizing it. Certainly the RTA and RTN (the two Tierran social institutions we have any real familiarity with) should be considered to be considerably more humane than their period counterparts, and are not unrecognizable to modern military sensibilities regarding “just treatment.”


#46974

I wouldn’t say you necessarily would be bad, more that you’d be trying to succeed at two hard things at the same time. “Overworked” sounds like a good word here.

There are people who can manage that, but the people who think they can outnumber those who actually make it. I have no idea how his wizard would be.


#46975

No one really covered this part of your comment so I feel like I need to: Why do you feel like that was the situation on the Tierra’s home soil? Certainly there was hunger in some areas, and higher taxes overall, but active oppression? Beyond the limited conscription, how do you think people were actively oppressed by the government?

I understand passively, but actively?


#46976

Well, if you want to make really long-lasting change, idealism combined with a solid level of mercy (not necessarily dominant mercy) seems to be the most reliable recipe.

Of course, strong idealism is also negatively correlated with long life expectancies.