Guns of Infinity(Pt 2)

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#9672

That particular decision I think came down to him assuming that the reason the Church Hussars weren’t committed to the field was because they were being held in reserve, and believed that he would be able to orchestrate the army from his position and might not even have to commit the Cuirassiers. As pointed out in-setting, Wulfram is a conventional man, and didn’t think that over four thousand heavily armored riders with magical weaponry were waiting in the forest to burst out at a moment’s notice.

Because, as pointed out in-universe, that particular tactic went past “unconventional” into “do you even know how horses work?”

Now, he should have expected something to come from the woods. And I’m guessing, if he expected anything, he was expecting partisans. If it was partisans in the woods, and there were Church Hussars committed to the field instead, Blogia would likely still have been a Tierran retreat. But not the utter rout it was.


#9673

It is possible.

I’m willing to believe that Wulfram decided to be where he was when he was based on what he thought were good and valid reasons.

I’m just not remotely charitably minded to Wulfram if he was such an imbecile that he was oblivious to something that has been known well before the 21st century in regards to commanding armies instead of what you said or Verand said or some other such conscious choice.


#9674

Well, Point is he didn’t really expect something to come out from there. Let alone partisans, it will be child’s game to route them with mass cavalry. What’s I am still struggling to understand is that why Wulfram believe it was impassable? And how did he make that kind of assumption?


#9675

The fact that he was at the front at all, considering he was the de facto commander-in-chief of the Tierran Expeditionary Force, is honestly folly (as Hastings – a battle which was fought according to cutting-edge Eleventh Century combat doctrine – could tell you). He should honestly have done what was done for the flank at 2K, and kept a small reserve of light cavalry and infantry ready to commit in the case of emergencies while only committing his own unit in the case of emergency.

The only force that wasn’t accounted for was the Church Hussars, and as you said, if it was partisans he would still have been able to repel them. He didn’t believe they were entirely impenetrable, but forced-marching heavy cavalry through miles of heavy forest was – and is – insane.


#9676

I have to recognize that doesn’t have sense think that the wood seems pretty possible for a very decided unit with know how and discipline.


#9677

I would pretty much agree. I suppose one could argue something more positive, but even if we ignore the reserve part - I think he was making a very dangerous assumption that after giving his orders to his subordinates, his primary duty was “colonel of the Cuirassiers”, not “commander of the Expeditionary Force”, and that the chain of command unraveling wouldn’t be an issue because…

well, that’s the part I can’t figure out a reason for. It is absolutely not a mystery that what he was doing risked death or serious injury even if it went as intended. Perhaps he just was that confident in Tourbridge, Havenport, and Castermaine - or that contemptuous of the Antari.

@Murdockchan The forest in question is described as a boreal rainforest. It’s among the most cavalry-unfriendly territory you could name.


#9678

And in the end, we have made fools of ourselves as Khorobirit strike our right like a flash of lightening and start wrecking havoc on Tourbridge’s brigade. Still sounds unbelievable to find out that Khorobirit did something that could like make horses suffer.

Well some people including me would argue that a regiment of Dragoons can scout the entire forest, which is not gonna happen as well in a short period of time. Unless of course if you had banecasters to clear a path.


#9679

If Khorobirit had lost the element of surprise before the Church Hussars had charged, it would be a different story. It isn’t just a matter of horses suffering – they would be unfit for open combat after the kind of maneuvers they made, and Wulfram could have evaded the initial charge if he wasn’t caught by surprise. They are Church Hussars, so they would have caused large amounts of damage and it would still have caused a retreat, but it wouldn’t have been the absolute slaughter we saw after Wulfram died.

Khorobirit took an incredibly risky gamble, and if it hadn’t gone off just so, we’d be debating about how much of a fool he was instead.

There were definite flaws in Wulfram’s logic:

  • He thought the only major threat to his brigade was Church Hussars, and assumed just because they weren’t committed that they weren’t at the battle at all.
  • He trusted his subordinates to carry out his battle plan, but didn’t have provisions for if it went pear-shaped like it did.
  • He went to the front, knowing that if he had died in the middle of battle it would have been a terrible blow to morale.
  • He centered the entirety of the cavalry sans Dragoons on one flank, so that if they had been hit by a decisive attack – like they were – they would have been slaughtered wholesale.

And of course, I know the “valid from a Tierran perspective but still flawed” logic for all of these.

  • Because the majority of the battlefield was open, and because the force he was worried about in question was heavy cavalry, he felt safe assuming they weren’t committed.
  • Because he had such talented subordinates and didn’t see an imminent threat to his life, he didn’t think the plan would go pear-shaped.
  • He was attempting a “hammer and anvil” tactic, which would have worked under normal circumstances.

#9680

Well, these are after all the Church Hussars, the best cavalry units created by humans of the infinite sea, they are basically guard Cuirassier a at a whole new level.

And yet he did the unexpected as well as the Mother of Ascension was with him, while the Saints decided that we must have some hardships so that some may rise to become heroes.


#9681

Assuming your enemy won’t do something you consider to be insane is generally a good way to get your ass kicked…


#9682

Upon hearing this, The MC: “Excuse me, can you hold my ale while I round up the 6th squadron and thrash the Hussars from once they came?”
Two months later, Tierran tombstances line up the cemetery.


#9683

My principal problem is that i am terrible with warfare, so Totally grain of salt anything I say about it my expertise is politics and laws not war. However Wulf, remember me the old guys in Spain fleet before the disaster in England shore. Terrible middle level officials put there because bought promitions, bad joined forces with units too different and bad placed in the field. And the worst not really a good idea about terrain and or climate possible effects in the battle.

But Also a good bunch of great officers with maximum discipline and loyalty, best weapons… Could be defeated by a totally bunch of peasants with only half uniform each because well women was making powder so have no time to sew dresses…
Take that Napoleon. But that’s only something that very rare happens like once in a lifetime The first defeat of Napoleon army was a Bailen.


#9684

I believe that Napoleon’s first defeat happened all the way back in 1799, at the Siege of Acre. Battle of Bailen happened in 1808 if I’m not wrong.


#9685

I was speaking first defeat of Napoleon as the big force in the Emperor army But yeah, he was defeated before . Lol Think in Trafalgar


#9686

Ah yes, sorry about the confusion then.


#9687

No no My fault, i described it poorly.


#9688

It wasn’t, Bonaparte’s first defeat was at the Second Battle of Bassano. But the first real defeat of Bonaparte was at the Battle of Aspern-Essling.


#9689

It’s very funny how many countries around saying they defeating Napoleon first time. Is just like Columbus birth place. Taht is very controversial issue here. Don’t tell anyone in Spain that wr weren’t the first time in Bailen lol. It’s funny due I mean Trafalgar is there in our mouths lol. Nationalism…


#9690

Bonaparte is actually quite a weirdo if you ask me, if all the defeats he had suffered, he would say that they’re just merely set backs, but he would say that the Battle of Aspern-Essling was a terrible loss to him and to France as he had loss Jean Lannes.


#9691

Not true, the fact he couldn’t beat England meant they fielded a better army, or in this case, navy (although it was the case after the Spanish Armada) or were just better tacticians. In any event, Napoleon pretty much knew he could never beat the English so he focused on the other European powers. Also, I do recall Napoleon once losing a battle in Egypt before Trafalgar.