Guns of Infinity(Pt 2)



@Bryce_Kaldwin, what exactly was cataprak explaining about? Economics within the Germany States?


When each state has a liberum veto, I wouldn’t call the superstate “centralized.”

What the EU has is the full faith and credit of Germany and France behind the euro, which is good enough for investors and consumers.


Sure, but somewhat independent appendages at that. Taxation and military discrepancies are just some of the examples where the various principalities could differ (and many continued to do right up until the republic was declared) from Prussia. Rather than compete on a Federal/Imperial level many of those smaller german states instead then just focused on internal politics for themselves. See Bavarian insistence on maintaining Catholicism throughout the Kulturkampf despite Bismarck’s contempt for the church, and their continued liberalization of society compared to Prussian conservatism.


Does that means that in a certain way and point, the German Empire doesn’t means that it nassacery represent all the German States but Prussia itself?


The German Empire was established along the lines of the Holy Roman Empire in the sense that it composed of various Kingdoms, Grand Duchies, Duchies, Principalities, and Free Cities ruled by their own sovereigns who swore nominal fealty to the Emperor who held the title of King of Prussia on top of Kaiser of Germany.

Kaiser Wilhelm II was Kaiser of Germany and King of Prussia and he was Head of State of the German Empire and controlled foreign policy and the like through his ministers.

King Ludwig III of Bavaria was the ruler of Bavaria and a member of the German Empire. The constituent states of the Empire got to sit in the “Upper House” of parliament and had the right to block legislation.

While in reality they were all supposed to be equal because Prussia was the most powerful state in the Empire it was able to dominate the smaller ones. The smaller nations militaries were also placed under Prussian command and the larger states had to conform to the Prussian standards and also give up independence in times of war.

So basically- think of it like the HRE except that they realised what went wrong with the first iteration and fixed it.


That I know, and that the figurehead emperor of the Holy Roman Empire was elected among all the German Kings, princes and varies nobles within the empire itself, same as what happens in Mersdon.

Bismarck had foretold that he would doomed the empire if not being careful with his policies.


With all those kings I surprised that Germany stayed intact after the Kaiser fled and none of them try to reestablish full independence again.


The people didn’t want them and there was a nice Soviet uprising that got viciously smacked down by the right wing which led to the Weimar Republic solidifying power and causing the viciousness that Hitler exploited to rise to power.

Namely it was the Soviet uprising that became the basis for the “stabbed-in-the-back” theory of the Germany military. That if it wasn’t for the Soviet inspired revolutionaries overthrowing the governments at home and diverting attention from the war effort that Germany still could have won.


Speaking of which, the British wanted to use the Weimar Republic as the buffers to halt and repulse the Soviets from spreading their influence throughout Western Europe during the peace talks at Versaille, that pure evil I dare say.


Man that sucks. Kaiser should had made peace earlier after Russia went red and they got plenty of land.

It was Poland who stopped the Soviet advanced at Warsaw. They threw back Tukhachevsky and Trotsky, saving Western Europe from the commie threat.


They did, but Britain in truth, wanted to use Germany as the secondary buffer to stop the Soviets further. That is particularly part of the reason why they want mild terms on Germany instead of France who wanted the total demilitarisation of Germany.


Think about the holy Roman empire of the poor girl she was going very strong until the death of Frederick the second. Who is a polymath in his day but kept on pissing off the pope he came close to freeing the holy land with out losing a single man through skill the diplomatic and whole lot of smoking. Once he died his enemies came crashing down to get far too many illegitimate children are not enough legitimate which lead to success crisis. The eventual long period of the Interregnum


With only a hundred thousand men and five hundred machines guns the Weimar republic army weren’t be able to do much beside slow the Soviets down if they got through poor Poland.


That in mind I think the “so what?” is that there is a possible path Tierra can chart that is minimally disruptive to political and “cultural” autonomy of the various components that still allows for common defense and economy. A side benefit of that path is that it also lends itself to more rapid integration of the other Northern Kingdoms.


What’s evil about that?


By using a defeated and nearly crippled nation as their capitalists’ tool to oppose the Soviets and Communist.


The HRE did take Rome in 1527 and kick Swiss butt plus catch the Pope later. But the Empire was a mess and who really want to be emperor of a union of disgruntled states.


An independent nation, with its own foreign policy, which was eventually treated as a functioning great power with its own agency (part of the reason why the Allies turned a blind eye to Hitler’s rearmament was because there was a persistent idea that Germany “deserved” better than Versailles).

Given how Moscow treated its “valued allies” (colonies in all but name), I’d say that’s a superior alternative.


What Cataphrak said, pretty much. As British diplomacy/imperial policy of the first three decades of the twentieth century goes, “Germany is weakened, but we don’t want it crippled. It could be useful.” is not really measuring up to “How many lies can we tell the Arabs before they find out?” and “If India gets treated halfway decently, brown people might have an influence on white people.”

There are things about the Raj that weren’t evil, but it’s certainly considerably more hurtful than “Germans stopping Communism is a good thing.” And the first is at best “Empires do not play nice.” without reservations.


Likely their be halted at the Rhine once the French and British send in whatever forces they had or the Soviets never get pass Berlin.