Guenevere (WIP)

@jason_king OK, I misunderstood you.

BTW, @jeantown, does SyagriusKingdom of Soissons exist in your game’s world?

I think there should be one occasion where those players who dislike Arthur could try to kill him before part 7. Of course it would end in a failure, but it could have some other consequences.

And will it be possible to make Arthur’s predestined death in part 7 the result of an assassination by Guen?

@poison_mara The armada was 30 years after Mary’s death. Why did the Spanish king wait so long?

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Barely related to the current discussion, but Arthur seems like a likeable enough fellow so I don’t mind him so much… But Lancelot. Seriously. Does NOT get the message no matter how much you try to hammer it home, and he basically forced himself on us. I don’t care how off the rails it goes or even if it results in an immediate dead end, I just want the option to stab that guy asap. He is quite possibly the character I hate the most in any choice game I’ve ever played.

@jeantown

Just wanted to add my voice to those praising this masterpiece you are creating. Love the game and can’t wait to play more.

@Sylfaen

To be fair lance is under a magic spell and did apologize immediately after he kissed guen so I don’t think we can judge too harshly until after the spell is broken and we can see how he acts without the influence of magic.

The spell is purely physical, him kissing us had nothing to do with it.

Nor do his actions when you turn him down and he goes off to fight for your glory or whatever.

I’m not saying he doesn’t love Guen he just wouldn’t be so forward like kissing her if the spell wasn’t affecting him and would respect her decision to stay with Arthur(which he at least tries to do now). As to the kiss he knew it was wrong and immediately apologized for his actions which were at least partly caused by the spell.

Jean has emphatically stated Lancelot has free will. I don’t think he meant to cross any lines with kissing Guen in part 2, but he doesn’t seem to have been thinking ahead of time about whether or not that would, either.

I think Sylfaen is being a bit harsh (though as my Guen hasn’t rejected him as harshly as possible I’m not sure - if he’s just as bad in response to that as to a trying to be gentle about it, my opinion is going to be closer to his/hers), but Lancelot does not seem to understand that when Guen says “I’m not interested.” that doesn’t mean just 'I’m not interested now." - that means she wants Lancelot as at most a nonromantic, nonsexual friend.

He’s not hopeless, but he’s definitely annoying there.

In part 7, can you do a Red Wedding type, Godfather style or Breaking Bad move and eliminate all the surviving rivals to your ultimate goal. Whether to be control Europe, protect Britain, or be Myley Cyrus

Well, to be fair I don’t think the whole “fight for your glory” thing is some passive aggressive attempt to hard sell you. Remember, he spends the same period studiously avoiding your presence. And he does this even if you do respond positively to him in the first chapter, so it’s not like this is some plan B when more normal attempts to woo you fail.

Most charitably I can see it as an attempt to channel his unacceptable romantic/sexual energy into productive, socially acceptable activity. Less charitably I can view it as a vanity project. In this view, he’s trying to prove his love not so much to win you over, but rather because he enjoys wallowing in his grand romantic martyrdom.

I tend to subscribe to the less charitable view, but that means less that I dislike him and more that I find him absolutely impossible to regard seriously. He’s kind of dumb and pathetic, but honestly that just makes it easier to shrug off the inappropriate kissing. If a person spends thee years comporting themselves like the male lead in some awful ABC Family show about sexy high schoolers, you kind of stop expecting them to have any meaningful impulse control or emotional maturity.

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I just hate having it forced on me, regardless of any justification. At first his actions did seem like he was channeling his energy into something productive, but later on I just got the feeling he was some kind of vain moron. Then with no excuse he just kisses me and then expects me to be okay with it? What the hell?

I think that “haben” means “to have” in German. But Habene sounds different enough, while similar to “haven” so i too think it’s a nice choice.

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@jason_king Hm… I never tried Purple Reign. I can see how keeping it at personal could be a challenge. And I can now vouch that writing purely political scenes can get boring fast – that’s the problem I’ve been having with the Frankmarch branch. (Fortunately I’m closing in on the end of it now, and I’ve found some ways to keep it personal.) But I’d love to see an author with a really strong sense of political/personal tensions in a particular period (like Elizabethan England or Augustan Rome) try to write a politically-focused game. Won’t be me, though! (:

@WulfyK I’m deliberately not including any “real” historical figures, and now that I’ve learned my lesson from Frankmarch, I’m also hoping to avoid including anything that doesn’t have at least some connection to actual Arthurian legend. I agree that the way to make a doomed-to-fail assassination interesting would be to give it some other consequences, maybe something the reader wouldn’t expect. If I can find a way to make that happen, I will. (I do have a few ideas.) Guen will determine whether Arthur lives or dies in part 7 – he can survive – but I’m not sure yet if she’ll be able to kill him directly herself, or if that role will fall, as it traditionally does, to Mordred. There will be a Battle of Camlann.

@Verand Thank you for the encouragement! I need it! (: @Sylfaen @Elfwine I’ve very deliberately tried to write Lancelot, and the kiss, in a way that would be open to a lot of different interpretations (thereby allowing a lot of different possible reactions and consequences), so I’m thrilled to see that that’s what’s happening. @Wonderboy’s different interpretations of the victory trophies are exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to allow for – maybe fighting for Guen’s glory is vain or passive aggressive or even disrespectful of her wishes, or maybe it’s (as Lancelot claims if Guen asks) a legitimate means of coping for someone who would otherwise feel debilitatingly helpless.

If Lancelot kisses a Guen who did not want to be kissed, he definitely does not expect her to be okay with it. He knows, almost immediately, that he made a mistake. Even if she forgives him, he may never forgive himself. (That’s why, if she attacks him until the sword gets stuck in the tree, he just hands it back to her, and he doesn’t dodge if she punches him.) If Guen makes him promise never to touch her again, he’ll keep that promise (whether out of vanity or whatever other motivation is up to you to decide), and he literally will never touch her again for the entire rest of the series, even if it costs him his life. And regardless of how Guen reacted, he’ll never kiss her or do anything else like that again if he has any reason to think she doesn’t want it.

In any case, Guen will be able to make Lancelot very miserable in more than one way, so the people who don’t like him can look forward to that. (:

@Pepper Probably nothing quite on Red Wedding scale… It’s just not that kind of game. (: But over the course of the series, Guen will be able to eliminate certain people if she thinks they’re a threat, and the body count could add up by the end. Will she magically transform into Myley Cyrus? Only time will tell… (:

@Ponku Good point; I was considering dropping the “-e,” but I guess I’d better not. (: Thank you!

Even if i like Lancelot a bit more then part 1, i still felt super duper happy to swing my sword at him and punch him. Hahaha It was so worth it. :smiley:

Omg i cant wait for Mordred! And @jeantown when my “Evil” guen made her own doppel something, that guen copy said Mordreds name so i was like whut!!!? hows that even possible??

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I for one was actually very sad that Lancelot whisked himself away for those three years, but as I understood it, it was a way for him to channel that self-frustration into positivity and productivity, while also serving as a distraction. You know, so he wouldn’t start brooding in the background, thinking naughty thoughts. :wink: Or he felt he owed it to Arthur to at least try not to.

I really love how we all have such different views on it, though. Shows a lot of skill on @jeantown’s part. :slight_smile:

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But will Guen be able to help Mordred to kill Arthur? give him a strength potion, poison Arthur to make him weaker/dizzy, reveal Mordred Arthur’s plans for battle?

And could Guen double-cross Mordred and facilitate Arthur’s victory

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And could Guen help Mordred kill Arthur and then kill Mordred herself in a classic quadruplecross?

And do this without Morgana finding out that she did it? :smile:

Orrrrrr…

  1. Mordred seeks to kill his father and take over Camelot - Betray Arthur to Mordred

  2. Lance seeks revenge for the murder of his best friend - Betray Mordred to Lance.

  3. Morgana seeks revenge for the murder of her son - Betray Lance to Morgana

  4. The people of Camelot seek justice for the deaths of two kings and a beloved hero - Pin the whole thing on Morgana and have her executed for treason.

The rare and exotic octuplecross!

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I want this to become a canon possibility! :smiley:

But what will Merlin do if this happens?

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@vecordias I absolutely agree. It’s interesting to see how some have mixed feelings towards Lance and his actions, and how some are outright hostile and hate him. It’s also really exciting because from all the replies I get to see a different angle of the same story, and experience something new.

The comments do, however, sometimes make me feel like a one woman Lancelot fanclub, as I really enjoy the way @jeantown wrote him. (it also helps that I loved his character ever since I was a little girl)

@Crepsley

Don’t worry I’m with you! Team lance all the way!(in a completely non sexual and strictly friendship capacity.) So I guess this means it’s a one man and one woman fanclub.