Isn’t medieval historians prone to exaggeration regarding army numbers?
I believed that the economy (both food and comfort generation ) is helped vastly by magic, hence easier to maintain a standing army. A simple take on fantasy economy
1 Like
Medieval and ancient alike - no society in this era could realistically even support in the field (as far as ensuring it had food and water) an individual army of 100,000+, and even half that would be a colossal task. And yet we hear of enemy armies in the hundreds of thousands whenever someone wants to excuse a defeat or glorify a victory.
A world where widely used magic can produce wheat as effectively as in the late 19th century (to name the first thing to mind) would certainly help the economy enormously, and if that magic allowed for vast quantities of food to be shipped as easily as by modern trucks and rail it would make feeding armies a lot easier - but it would also change the setting so dramatically that it wouldn’t be recognize as “based on Arthurian legend” at all.
So I played through Guenevere three or four times, each time thinking, “ok, I’m going to pay close attention, and provide a reasoned, helpful critique.”
Unfortunately, all I can come up with is incoherent screeching, with the occasional squee of delight.
So, great job! In terms of suggestions for the next part, I second the idea of having some kind of duel option with the Frankish general. Maybe if Lancelot isn’t around + Guen isn’t a martial type, Maris or Bretta could do the honours?
Also, if you don’t use the carrot at all, will there be an option to return it to Merlin when he gets back from Druid-Con? I just think that would be kind of hilarious. Merlin comes back, Camelot’s on fire, everyone’s screaming and running, Guen’s covered in the blood of her enemies-
“Oh dear,” says Merlin.
-and Guen just silently hands him the carrot.
Assorted things I liked:
The sheep.
“Oh, Morgana, did you cut your nails?” I may have giggled.
How Arthur valiantly charges off… in completely the wrong direction.
The multiple Guens. That was so meta!
Anyway, I’ll stop rambling now. It’s actually really hard for me to pick a “canon” Guen so far! There’s so many options that seem viable and interesting.
Food and comfort generation , not transport. Spells that kill sheep, in the flip side can heal or make them bountiful ,Druidic spells for crops and animals. Help minimize cost in feeding army/country.
@WulfyK @Elfwine, Well, at least I can be comforted that handwaving of economic concerns is a long and well-established practice of Arthurian tradition (as Mark Twain seems to have enjoyed pointing out). The fact that there isn’t much of anything truly Arthurian to work with means that economy and taxation will probably never play a significant role in the game; it’s not that kind of game, and I’ve learned my lesson about trying to write a ton of stuff that has no connection to Arthurian tradition.
I’ve been picturing armies in the single-digit thousands, made up of partly of professional soldiers on the Roman model, partly of non-landowning knights from merit orders, partly of landowning knights and their personal comitati, and partly of rotating peasant-militia supplied by the landowning knights. I don’t plan on any of the battles being anywhere close to Peter Jackson numbers; endless identical CG elves and orcs don’t seem appropriate for the highly personal scale of Guenevere. I’ve felt from the beginning that smaller armies and battles would make the story feel more earnest and intimate – Arthur really can walk through his army camp and be seen up close by almost everyone in one night. The exception is Rome; they’re supposed to seem huge and impersonal and scary, which will be reflected in their higher numbers (but still not Peter Jackson numbers).
And @Pepper is absolutely right; in fact, I’ve changed my mind about using the Grail, and my current plan is that it will show up in part 4 and be specifically connected with agricultural productivity. That could still change, but insofar as fantasy-Britain is more prosperous than “real” fifth-century Britain… a wizard did it (literally). The concept of magic linking the land and the kingship with exceptional prosperity has its place in Arthurian legend (or in Excalibur, at least!) and for the purposes of Guenevere, it will be more mystical than technical (no magic railroads).
@Ossifer Thanks for all of your kind words! I’m so glad you’re happy with it. 
I’ll have to see what I can do in terms of a single-combat option on the Camelot branch. It’s a very cool idea. I have indeed given some thought to what might happen if Guen doesn’t use the carrot… She’ll have a few more chances to use it, but I agree that it would be awfully fun for her to just hand it back to Merlin at the end. (: (and I just now looked up “Druid-Con,” and apparently there is a real Druid Con!) Anyway, I really enjoyed reading about what you liked; I need comments like that so I know what’s working. (: Thanks again!
2 Likes
Hmmm like the rule of scar leads to famine while the rule of simba and Mufasa leads to prosperity
Btw, can you have a giant bodyguard?
Could you give us a rough outline on skills? Like say what score is dabbler, what score is competent, and and at what score we start scaring people? It would be useful to know if we’re aiming for one woman army, earthbound goddess of magic, or female reincarnation of Sun Tzu. Tin Star testing has an alternative “narrative” stat screen that’s really useful in that regard.
Morgana gets tired from using her dark magic, does light magic drain stamina as well or does it spring from another source? I mean I get the impression I won't be using that sword to heal people after taking a certain halfgiant's head as a trophy.
Which reminds me, when talking about sparing the king trying to kill me with Meligaunt, I’d really like to have the option to say “I gave him a second chance for Arthur’s sake, he won’t be getting a third chance I assure you.”
2 Likes
I think that call (on smaller armies) is right, even if this was something where larger ones could be justified. The earnest and intimate feel is part of why the story is great.
1 Like
Giving the Holy Grail a practical function sounds interesting, maybe it could be used to other things besides agriculture too? possibly dependant on the user’s skills or itnents?
Also, how menacing does Roman empire appear for Guen and the other characters? After all, the Romans have lost Britain and parts of Gaul a while ago and the division into Wester and Eastern (Byzanthine) Empire has happened.
perhaps you could forgive my arrogance , but if i remember my history books, and what Ive gathered from personal reading, the Arthur legend is that it takes place after the collapse of Romes ability to pose any sort of credible threat… and the empire fell not to long after that… so i would ask … how could Rome at this point be see as huge threatening and impersonal at all?..also if you where worried about numbers, as far as Rome goes at their height the standing army of the empire was around five hundred thousand men, chalked up into legions spread across the entire empire, so if they wanted to they could put together quite a large army, depending on how strong your making them… given this massive military ((a term i don’t think should be applied to say Arthurian England, its got a army, even a semi standing one but not really a “military”)
well im glad you read the post ;), it just seems to me, espically if you’ve the sort of guen i have that that would be a very large concern for her,she had sex with Arthur simply because it suited her politically :p… and honestly i never really felt like we where being forced into anything, if you mean you have to be in the situation in general, he is her husband so it makes sense that they would wind up in bed with her having to brush him off, or not … im actually a bit worried about my Arthur , he is starting to sound like a jilted puppy , maybe snubbing him in-front of some servants helped with that . i really really don like him, not to say that you didn’t write him well, or anything like that i don’t like him because of his personality, which i think you represented very well
as far as economic and political l concerns, using magic to feed a army …would work on the short term, but “magic all-ways comes with a price deary!” (( that’s a quote )) and someone constantly having to summon up enough food to feed a army would be rather taxing for them, even Merlin .
historical accuracy, i would suggest that its fantasy , but perhaps you could go for plausible situations? like if i show up and take command of the army, and the franks land with like sixty thousand people, i may be a bit mind stomped 
@everyone: I forgot to mention that I think I fixed the bug that @Crepsley found. The final Lancelot scene is still a mess, so I would be very grateful for reports on any bugs there or elsewhere (especially if anyone notices the problem of Guen asking Lancelot to get Meligaunt’s sword even if she’s the one going to Michaelsmount). Also @Crepsley, I forgot to mention that I don’t think there was ever a line about Lance noticing the necklace, since he doesn’t show up until after the assassination attempt… but I do like the idea, so maybe one will appear. (: (Arthur does, however, notice if Guen is or isn’t wearing the necklace.)
@Pepper Yes, a bit like that! (: I don’t want to get too “divine right of kings” or anything, but the royal bloodlines in my world do have some special powers.
@stsword Oh my; can you ask me again once I’ve finished part 7? I don’t have a definitive answer right now, because I don’t know how high the stats will be able to go by the time the whole thing is done. (some related thoughts in this post.) Maybe once I’ve finished, I could add something along the lines of the Tin Star screen – I think it’s a good idea, and you’re not the first person to ask about that.
Light magic does work a bit differently. It doesn’t drain the caster the way dark magic does; the strength/quality of a light magic spell is more determined by the practice and experience of the caster. So no, Meligaunt’s sword won’t be useful to a light magic -focused Guen. I’m planning to offer LM!Guen a different Important Magic Item in part 3.
That is a GREAT suggestion for the conversation about Hrothulf. I’ll add it to my edit list. (:
@WulkyK The grail will have some other powers, but nothing flashy. Guen herself won’t be able to use it directly, because its powers are tied to the royal bloodlines. (Don’t worry, I plan to give Guen some cool magic stuff of her own if she wants it.) and @jason_king This is an alternate universe in which the Roman Empire never “fell,” though it also never conquered Britain. The Romans show up as a vague, symbolic superpower in the background of some of the traditional Arthurian material; in some of the stories, Arthur conquers Rome, thereby proving his awesomeness, but also giving Mordred the distraction he needs to make his bid for power.
(also @jason_king) Honestly, I’m happy with people not liking Arthur (or any of the other characters). I try to write them in such a way that there are good reasons not to like each of them. I hope you enjoy some of the options Guen will have for dealing with Arthur if she just doesn’t like him. (:
Yeah, nobody is just making army-rations appear out of thin air; that would be too much. (: Magic is, however, generally making the land more fertile and productive, so there’s more of a food surplus than in “real” history.
Plausibility and consistency are indeed key to word-building… the balances I’ve established so far, in terms of pseudo-history vs. impossible fantasy, as well as scale and the necessary degree of belief-suspension, are basically what you’ll be seeing for the rest of the series. I’ve already settled pretty firmly on how “real” vs. “fantastical” I intend to make the story setting, and that balance isn’t going to change. I hope that anyone who likes the balance in the first two parts will be generally happy with the way it continues in the rest of the game, and for anyone who doesn’t, well, there are lots of other great games out there. (:
2 Likes
@jeantown My mistake then. I mixed up a headcanon with what actually happened. I remembered Arthur noticing, but apparently I decided to imagine Lance there, as well. I’m glad you like the idea of it, though. I’ll keep it as a little extra detail for my Guen, whether it actually makes it in game or not. c: As for the bug, I did several runs to see if the bug still showed up, and everything seems just fine.
@Crepsley It’s a good headcanon which may very well become canon-canon. In any case I’m 100% sure Lance did notice; he wouldn’t miss something like that. (: Thanks again for double-checking the bug fix!
But your game mentions an “old Roman road” and Boudica, who is famous for fighting againt the Romans. Also, as far as I know, Roman heritage plays a notable role in Britain even today, therefore I think it would make more sense to keep the Roman conquest and later withdrawal from Britain as your world’s history. Just have the Roman Empire gone through a crisis (the one that led to its ultimate collaps in real life), but recovered from it. This would also give them a good reason for their invasion.
1 Like
@WulfyK Thanks for the input! (: Perhaps in this universe, the Romans occupied some areas for a while, and built a few roads and towns, before Boudica kicked them out. Maybe they’re going to want their roads back.
2 Likes
well :), is geun going to follow superman to rome i wonder…if not it would be interesting to see a Morgana romancing guen as regent of Brittan, trying to fight her son… or not … how much of its territory does rome have? because Gaul which is where the franks are was another de-jure territory of rome… just wow though, does Brittan even have the army to take on a military? i mean im trying to think of some knights and levies taking down roman legions…also will the Romans have magic i wonder ((again)) i mean they had preists and everything but still
im starting to worry about guens ability to get into power, considering my tactical-sword play power focused guen i see some future trouble, also merlin … although he falls asleep if i member the legend … so would a non magic guen be able to use to sowrd, on mylast playthorugh i used willpower to attempt to use it for a bit, even got a leg
sorry :p, how good is guen at her main ability, like i chose mine to be tactical/leadership but is she a match for say Arthur?
… you know this is why i like choice of games, choice games so much, they are really the only ones that actually let you control whats going on, they Are like f50-50 book and game as opposed to most choose e your own’s which are more like 80-10 ;3
it will also be interesting to see Morgana response, and then even more so when things start to hea t up, im planning on if you’ve the option to be nice and try and tutor Mordred for Morgana sake, but when the politics heat up whose side will she take, if any… and will she back stab or lie to guen to gather Intel for Mordred …stuff like that etc
@jason_king Lots of interesting possibilities for the fantasy-Romans! They do indeed have magic, which is studied at the Imperial Academy in Rome, and they do indeed use magic in battles. The fantasy-British in their current state might be able to resist an invasion from fantasy-Rome, but they wouldn’t be able to go on the offensive against the Romans and live. As for the extent of the empire… well, Frankmarch isn’t part of it, but areas farther south are. (fantasy-Frankmarch in is roughly the same area as real Belgium).
Guen will be able to rise to power in different ways, no matter what skills she has. Certain options will only be available to Guens with certain skills, but they should balance out. If Guen has the sword skill and a more ruthless personality, she should be able to make Meligaunt’s sword her own in the end. If she’s the more peaceful type, she should probably just destroy it and wait for a more appropriate magic item in part 3.
Here’s a post where I talked about how Guen’s skills compare to the other main characters.
I can’t wait to write the later parts with Mordred, and deal with Morgana’s complicated feelings as she starts to realize her son is rather evil… and how, exactly Guen might deal with that… oh the drama… 
1 Like
im trying to imagine alight magic hippie guen seizing power, but i don know maybe Arthur dies and she must be regent, however a guen with certain types of personalities would be rather, well it would prevent you from staying on as regent or even if you did being able to fulfill the expectations on the role
i really liked whee you got to choose what your queens personalty has become known for, which i would also think would have a influence on her ability to rule once she gets there
its still rather amusing to imagine Arthur marching up to legions , i mean this was for the majority of the empires existence, on of the most organized professional armies ever, in fact its one of the first to even deserve the term “military” … and i dont think britan has anything close, even with her antire army raised., so im saying im intersted to see how you do it, not smashin gyour logic
also, you say it has he southern regions?, well that is still a rather large area , hispania(spain, gaul italy north africa turkey, th e balkans, greece… actually im going to link you to something
the first llink is something like what you imagine your Rome to be, except you might think its got more of its eastern lands, this is actually the republic not the empire, but like i said i imagine this being what you put out in your post as what its held onto
http://www.humanjourney.us/images/RomanEmpireAugustusLg.
now im sure you know what the empire looked like at its height, i sent tis to illustrate that even with western Europe gone, and its southern regions still there the empire is so massive that you could a hundred d of arhuurs kingdom into it , one more link with England highlighted
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSVG7gtvvGACEoCA-acgg_H0cInu_dJiu9XtGabs0xHgFi5N8kAQ
((the first link is really what i imagine eyou to imagine your fantasy tomes territory to be though
I imagine that’s why Jean said that Arthur wouldn’t be able to attack Rome and live.
Even with how big Roman Empire is in this world, giving they accept foreigners into the academy at Rome, implies that they are more peacefull and accepting of other nations and stoped or quelled their expansionism at some point. Also while still being big and menacing it also require a lot of army to cover the land, so any invasion army they would muster, while still big, may be possible to be sopped by rich and powerfull country as Britain is in this world. But also if turning all of it’s rage for attacking their empire, they would be easily able to defeat Arthur.
At least that’s how i interpreted what i red in the story
But certainly imagining medieval heavy cavalry charging into Roman square formaions would be very amusing
1 Like