Guenevere (WIP)

[Choobacca]

@jeantown

First of all, I absolutely love this game. It is one of my favourite WiPs on the site and I was super excited to see an update for it. Thank you for taking so much of your time and using it to provide us with it.

Now, you mentioned when you first post book 2 that you would like people who have finished the game to tell you what branch they chose and why, as well as what they would like to see on that branch.

Morgana was my love interest, and even though my Guen was intelligent and tactical, and even though she knew Morgana could take care of herself, her emotions wound up having her decide to look for Morgana first. Also, she knows Morgana could be very helpful in completing any of these three branches.

My Guen originally sent Lancelot to help Arthur, but on thinking about it I may change that and send Fluffy with Meligaunt (who was injured during the kidnapping) and hope that he’s enough to help Arthur out there, and send Lancelot to Frankmarch, leaving the Camelot branch for my Guen (Camelot being the branch I want to end up in and the branch I would choose if I wasn’t looking for Morgana. On that note, I hope that the Camelot path is the one I end up on after finding Morgana. Fingers crossed XD)

My Guen had skills in sword and leadership, about equal in each (I think it was 30 or 31 sword and 28 leadership). She is also brave (highest stat), intelligent (smarts for tactics and scenarios) and convivial (how can you not choose the purple Hawke stat?). She is kind to Arthur, Lancelot and Morgana and wants the best for Camelot. She thinks Arthur’s vision is a beautiful thing, but also that it is like perfection: impossible to achieve. Like perfection, however, striving towards it is the real goal. So while she realizes he will never achieve his vision, she does believe that attempting to achieve is what will truly bring a better Camelot.

Anyways, I want to choose the Camelot branch for Guen because of my leadership skills (and sword skills), but also because my Guen’s goal is to keep Camelot safe. This means both keeping Arthur safe (as he is king) and keeping the people safe (which means the Camelot branch). An alliance with Frankmarch, while nice, is not a priority for her.

I suppose what I would like to achieve in the Camelot branch is being seen as more than just Arthur’s wife. I want to be seen as a leader and warrior in my own right; for people to respect and follow me because of who I am, not who I am married to. I want to lead the army and win battles. Also, give me a few epic swordfights if you could

Although I wouldn’t be opposed to a non-violent solution to the Camelot branch. Intimidating them into standing down, or just downright charming/bluffing my way out of war

A couple more things:

Earlier you mentioned Guen, if focusing one skill, might be able to surpass her friends and stuff. The example mentioned was joining the order of Boudica and defeating Lancelot in a duel in book 5 or something. My question here is wouldn’t Guen be a bit old to become a knight by then? Book 5 (approx. age 35) would work for Leadership and the magics because you just keeping becoming smarter and learning more as you age, but swordfighting requires good physical condition, and the peak for humans is usually in their 20s. I suppose experience might make up for it…

Another thing is I absolutely love your Morgana. When I first played part 1 I wasn’t sure what to expect but she is definitely my favourite character here. Not that I dislike Arthur or Lance of course! They’re awesome too.

About Morgana, you seem to like the idea (and have hinted) of Morgana having feelings for Lance. I think that’s fine and all (though I wouldn’t go for a Guen/Morgana/Lance relationship myself…probably), but I can only imagine my Guen having the same conversation with Morgana she had with my Guen! “Morgana, I need to know there’s not anything going on between you and Lance. I’m okay sharing you with Lot, but Lance is more than I can handle…” lol! Guen would be the paranoid/jealous one then! I suppose it will be possible to make them realize either that they have feelings for each other or that their feelings or just brotherly/sisterly?

Anyways, thank you so much for writing this, and I wish you all the best in continuing (though that wish is slightly selfish; I definitely want to play more of this)!

[Crepsley]

@jeantown

I saw your post on Tumblr asking people to talk about their game, the choices their Guens made and what we’d like to see happen – so I thought I’d make an account here and give you my two cents.

My Guen is a tactician first, and a warrior second. Her highest stats are intelligence, bravery, and kindness. When I started the story, I had a rough idea of what I wanted to do, based on your story’s description. I wanted her to be able to be confident in conflict, but a little shakier with romance, due to limited experience. That’s why I made her nervous on her wedding day, knowing it was her duty to be a good queen even if she wasn’t attracted to Arthur, but also calculating, as she could potentially do a lot of good.

So based on that my initial idea was to be faithful to Arthur.

But then Lancelot’s entry spun me around pretty damn fast, because suddenly seeing my Guen fall for him made a lot of sense. He opened with a joke, made her laugh while she was struggling to keep her nerves under control, and in that brief encounter, he made her relax considerably.

I built on that afterwards. How she felt overwhelmed surrounded by strangers, but Lance’s friendliness, and eagerness to interact with her made it easier on her. He felt a lot more approachable. It was relief that Arthur was sweet with her, and she did her duty and slept with him, but she also couldn’t deny that she was attracted to Lance.

With the spell, this attraction spins out of control for her, and she ends up kissing him in her tent when he goes to warn her. She takes his three years of avoidance with stride – flattered with the amount of victories he sent in her honor, but also sad that they can’t spend time together. They fight side-by-side against Meligaunt, managing to wound him, and Guen escapes off the ship by stealing the magic sword and trying to command it through force of will.

Later, three years of pent up frustration and yearning are released when she sleeps with Lancelot in the orchard and the two confess their love for one another.

Guen decides to rush back to Camelot because lives are at stake, and sends Lancelot to help Arthur.

I’m really invested in my Guen’s emotions, because I spent a lot of time figuring out what would make the most sense for her given each situation, so one of the things I’m looking forward to seeing is how her affair will unfold back at court. It would be interesting to see if Guen could come clean to Arthur about her feelings for his best friend, and perhaps different ways in which Arthur could take the news. Would he be able to accept that his queen, while a dutiful wife who is willing to give him an heir and cares for him as a friend, does not love him and has an affair? Or would he react negatively?

The other thing I’m really looking forward to is seeing how the choices you make at the end of part one of book two shape Guen’s future. Since I sent her back with the intention of leading an army against the invaders, I’m curious how that will shape the power she wields and how people will begin to see her and Arthur.

Thank you for this game. Your writing is truly engaging and it has been a great pleasure to play this.

[WulfyK]

Lancelot would be affected by the age too.

[halcyon]

I was so excited when I read the title!! I’m going to play it right away!

[Choobacca]

True, but I was thinking more the acceptance into the Order of Boudica. I guess it works though.

[WulfyK]

I think if Guen trained for two decades, she should have the right balance of physical abilities and experience to be accepted.

[jeantown]

@thesunfloweramazon Glad you found that part! (: As for the three years thing, I think it the main reason it took that long was that Arthur and Guen have only been together off and on, in a semi-long-distance relationship where they see each other for a week or a month, and then not for another two months, and there are always a million things that need to be taken care of (same reasons why they didn’t get to meet before the wedding). I guess we have to leave open the possibility that Guen might already have told him she loves him sometime in all of that chaos, but he (however he felt) hasn’t quite worked himself up to saying it… and you read the characters and the small details SO WELL (like, scary well), so that’s all I’m going to say for now. (:

@Lanawinst Yaaaaay! ^-^ I was so hoping someone would take that exact path! I’m delighted that it worked out that way; thanks for telling me. I’d like to write more possible turning-points like that in the future, so that Guen can not have sex with Arthur for years and years, and then finally, if she wants, go ahead with it.

@Choobacca Thank you! (: And thanks for writing so much about your Guen and your experience; it’s really really helpful. I love the idea of smart, tactical Guen nonetheless choosing to follow her heart and look for Morgana first. The game will sometimes ask Guen to choose between a more logical course and personal loyalty, and I hope that some of those decisions will be good moments for character development. And, as you say, looking for Morgana isn’t a stupid move, either.

Injuring Meligaunt and sending Fluffy with him are both good moves if you’re not planning to go to Michaelsmount. Lancelot is well-equipped to handle things in Frankmarch, though he’ll need at least one other advantage in order to achieve total success. Guen’s options after finding Morgana will depend on whether or not Morgana escaped first. (Hope none of that was too spoilery; I’m just trying to give people a little warning so they’re not too disappointed if some things don’t work out.)

I like the combination of intelligent Guen and purple hawke Guen, and the idealism mixed with realism – striving for perfection even though she knows it’s unattainable, because the striving is what’s important… that seems like a really consistent, cohesive, and fun personality to play. She ought to do well on the Camelot branch, to the point that people may be left wondering why she’s not the one leading the army all the time… I’ll see what I can do about epic swordfights! Also like the idea of a non-violent solution, too. If anyone has any specific ideas for non-violent solutions, especially things that might be appropriate for a more magical Guen, I’d love to hear them (no promises that I can incorporate every idea, but hearing ideas is always helpful).

As for Guen becoming a knight, it would be a somewhat exceptional case, and the Order of Boudica would probably invite her more in recognition of past accomplishments than anticipation of future ones. But a good athlete who stays in rigorous training can still be quite strong in their 30s. I believe the US army allows people to join as late as 35, if they can keep up with the training, and iirc some soldiers are in combat as late as their 50s (admittedly not the same as sword fighting, but still pretty physically demanding). And exactly as @WulfyK says, Lancelot is two years older than Guen, so anything she loses to age, he’ll be losing too.

(I’m looking forward to writing all of these characters when they’re older, by the way. I’ve said this before, but one of the things I’d like to do with this story is let some of the younger readers know that life does not end at 30.)

Very glad you like Morgana! She’s a lot of fun to write. I’ve probably overstated the Morgana/Lancelot latent attraction; it’s VERY latent. They’re both happy with their siblingy relationship as it is, and neither wants it to change at the moment. Here’s something I wrote in a previous post a long time ago:

@jeantown

I think for my Morgana, it’s a point of pride that she considers herself immune to Lancelot’s charms. She’s not perfect, and there may unfortunately be a little bit of the “not like all those other girls” mentality going on with her in that regard. I think their sibling-like relationship makes her feel a little superior, because he genuinely trusts her in ways he doesn’t trust other people. She’s scared enough of losing or complicating that relationship, that she doesn’t think she wants it to be any other way.

That said, I really like the idea of Guen asking Morgana to promise not to get involved with Lance – it’s only fair, after all, and Morgana’s reaction to the slightest suggestion of such a thing could be way too much fun to write. But yes, eventually, most likely in part 4 when some circumstances have changed, and if both their trust stats are very high, Guen miiiight be able to get them to reflect a bit more on their possible feelings toward each other. Totally optional, of course. (:

Thanks again for all of your comments and encouragement!

@Crepsley Oh, thank you so much for making the account and writing all of this! (: (: Reading a detailed recap of someone’s playthough really does help me think about how each of the plot points would look to that particular Guen, and what might be a character development moment I hadn’t even thought of. It sounds like your Guen is walking kind of a classic Guinevere path (re: Lancelot), with really carefully thought-out motivations which I loved reading about. I like the combination of nervousness with ambition, and a Guen who might be politically/militarily confident but inexperienced when it comes to personal relationships.

I’ve been struggling with how much a Guen romancing Lancelot or Morgana should be able to tell Arthur at the end of part 2. It seems unfair of me not to give an option for her to just tell him everything if that’s what she wants to do, but wow, the repercussions of that (especially given all the possible variants of her relationship with Arthur) will be a lot to account for. Fortunately, that’s exactly the kind of problem I like to tackle. (Just how much relationship variety and nuance can I build in before I come up against the limits of the ChoiceScript medium or my own brain? Not sure, but it looks like I’m going to try.)

It’s my intention for the choices Guen makes in the second half of part 2 to have a big impact on how the people of Britain and beyond view her, and what kind of queen she becomes. Part 1 focused on establishing her personality, the first half of part 2 solidified her relationships (whatever form they’re taking) with the other characters, and now she’s really going to take her place on the public stage in a way that people won’t be able to forget. I just hope I can make it all work!

I’m so glad you’re enjoying the game, and thanks again for going to the trouble of making an account.

@halcyon Hope you like it – but please let me know what you think no matter what! (:

[Choobacca]

@jeantown

Regarding non-violent solutions to Camelot, I thought of two things that you’ve probably already thought of as well, but here goes.

First off, for a more morally ambiguous option, magic Guen might be able to use some form of mind control (if that magic exists in your story. Light magic can be used to calm down sheep, at least, so it probably has some basis. Although tbh it seems more like something a dark magic spell might do). The obvious target for the spell would be the enemy commander. The problem here, of course, is the question of whether the invading army is more loyal to the enemy commander or to the person who gave the orders to the commander. Also, they would probably be smart enough to question why the commander was suddenly reversing his or her orders.

Secondly, you could always use the classic one-on-one duel, winner takes all type thing. Choose a champion to decide the battle. The big problem in this case actually getting the invading army to agree to it AND to follow through on their promise if their champion loses. If they have a larger or equally sized army, why would they risk a one-on-one duel to decide their fate? So what Guen needs to do is trick the enemy into thinking her army is much bigger. I don’t know if you can create illusions, but that might be an option for magical Guen. Or maybe she could give weapons and/or armour to all the peasants to make it seem like her army is bigger (in this case, we would get a bluff and a epic swordfight)! Or some other way, I’m not sure. Anyways, once she has the enemy convinced of the size of her army, I assume they would be frightened enough (there’s no way we can win!) to accept her proposal. Guen might be able to duel herself (sword skill) or choose a champion (and maybe buff them up with magic). Obviously, losing the duel would be bad. In that case, maybe Guen could have the option to attack with her army anyways. Or just to accept occupation.

Of course, both of these suggestions have their problems, and might just not work logically. I haven’t really put that much thought into them, after all. Hope they help though!

[Outrageous]

@jeantown If you do decide to have a Arthur fanclub running around, is there any chance that Guen would be able to join it? I think it’d be pretty great as a side thing, with Guen trying to hide the Arthur/Lance fanfics shared between the members of the club. I can imagine the reactions if they were found…

[JTAL]

Oh, just had a thought, but it would mean more work for at least one potentially null and void branch, depending on actions previously – getting to know Maris and Bretta a bit more. For a warrior-inclined Guen it would be like having sword-sisters, if you follow. But it may prove too much work for little return… But, I figured I could always throw it out here any way and the rest is all up to you. (c:

Looking forward to when I can get to know Merlin a bit more, he seems fun (bot ‘haha’ and ‘weird’)! (c;

[jeantown]

@Choobacca Those are both really great ideas! (And even if I’ve already thought of something, hearing a different take on it, or just knowing that someone else thinks it would work, is still very helpful). I honestly hadn’t thought of using the calming spell in a battle. I’ll have to think about the parameters and how well it might or might not work on humans. Direct mind control would fall under dark magic, and I do have to be careful with that kind of thing, because once I give Guen an ability, she should always be able to use it (so if she can mind-control an enemy commander, why can’t she just mind-control everybody in Camelot, including Arthur?) There are workarounds, though… I can give her a one-time-use magic item, or make the enemy commander susceptible in ways that other people aren’t… As for making her army look larger than it actually is, I love that! I know that was a common tactic in actual medieval warfare; it shows up in a lot of the histories I’ve read. I’m really glad you mentioned it, because there’s a lot I could do there. And a one-on-one duel would be awfully fun. Seriously, thanks for the brainstorming; it’s exactly what I need!

@Outrageous Oh, if there’s a fanclub, Guen would definitely have the option of participating. (: I want to work in every opportunity I can for female characters to be nice to each other (if Guen so chooses).

@JTAL Hope this doesn’t spoil things for anyone, but: If Bretta survived part 1, Guen will be seeing both her and Maris in the near future, no matter what branch she chooses. (: I’d love for Guen to get to know them better, though I haven’t written much of that yet (and also they’re both somewhat stoic and reserved, Maris more so than Bretta). Hm, maybe I can work in some side-conversations with them…

Right now the plan is for Merlin to make another brief appearance at the end of part 2, and then to be present throughout most of part 3. I’m looking forward to having him around more.

[WulfyK]

@jeantown, Are you still planning to make Sir Bretta a RO in the finished game?

[jeantown]

@WulfyK Honestly I have no idea at this point; it’s just one of those “might be cool” things I put on my list of stuff to think about adding after I finish part 7 (which will be a long, long time from now). I do think it might be nice to have a romance that wasn’t even slightly tangled up in the complicated Arthur/Morgana/Lancelot quadrangle, nice to have another f/f option, and nice to develop Bretta’s personality some more. But I would want it to make some kind of difference in the overall plot, so I need to see exactly how the overall plot develops before I think too seriously about it.

[Wonderboy]

In the back of my mind I keep thinking that there’d be a lot of benefits to bringing in another woman somewhere down the line. This goes beyond just “balancing” the genders of the romantic options. Consider the following scenarios:

1. Guen has no sexual interest in Arthur but likes him enough to feel bad about inadvertently consigning him to a vow of celibacy.

2. Guen and Lance have broken whatever curse thingy is between them and reached a point where they have no romantic involvement but Lance has now moved past the point where he can just be a carefree skirtchaser.

3. If Guen doesn’t pursue a relationship with Morgana, I can imagine it being within her personality just stoically endure her unwanted marriage while sublimating her frustrations to other ends until the end of time, but its kind if a shame.

You could have these issues just kind of resolve themselves between chapters with the unpursued romances just moving on on their own eventually, but I suspect its more in the spirit of what you’re trying to do with the game to give Guen the opportunity to play matchmaker. That would mean fleshing out another sexually available character which would in turn mean some other Guen somewhere is going to want to sleep with that person.

I don’t know if Bretta would actually be the best option for that, especially since she can be dead as of chapter one. Plus, I can’t imagine her getting into a relationship with Arthur, even with Guen’s explicit permission.

I actually think the Duchess might be an interesting fit for the role: There’d be an amusing irony if she and Lance did actually end up in a real relationship down the line, and she’d have plenty of reasons she could be conveniently absent anywhere her involvement would clutter up the narrative; which wouldn’t be true for Guen’s dedicated bodyguard.

The other option is to bring someone new to Camelot in later chapters. That could actually be an opportunity to bring in someone with a more mundane background; a minor nobel or a merchant or even a servant who could provide a different point of view on everything that’s happening.

Obviously the downside to all these options is they just present a bunch more work and complication, but you generally don’t seem scared of that.

[WulfyK]

@Wonderboy I like the idea to make Guen a shipper of NPCs.

[Ponku]

I like the fact that Morgana seems totally not into Lance in any romantic kind of way. That she just don’t find him or his behavior attractive and they are friends only because of their love for Arthur. It makes my Guen feel closer to her by not liking him too much both in my Moragana romance path and her fiendship path.
For me her comment about not wanting to share Guen with Lance meant that she don’t want to share her with anyone but she herself is married to Lot and would understand if Guen had to spend time with her husband too.

[Ponku]

@jeantown After reading Lance love scene i thought about the non-love spell and if there possibly any way to maybe cast it deliberately on me and Arthur (or Morgana) when we learn more about it It seems like a nice way to aditionaly enhance our nights

[jeantown]

@Wonderboy All really good observations. I have given some thought to what might happen in each of the three main NPCs’ love lives down the line if Guen is not romancing them. (also @WulfyK) I’ve thought the same thing, that an opportunity for Guen to matchmake seems appropriate for the game. In any case, if Bretta were an RO, she would be available only to Guen; I wouldn’t match her with any of the other characters, but would come up with more appropriate options for each of them. The duchess had crossed my mind as a possibility for either Guen or Lance, so it’s nice to hear that someone else thinks so, too. You’re right that she’d be wonderfully manageable, able to drop in and out at the most convenient points. At the moment, I have already tagged two other possible characters (outside of the main 4 and not yet introduced) with whom Lancelot might end up living happily ever after, and have toyed around with a few different ideas for Morgana. Arthur is the one I’m really still not sure about, since he’ll just never be 100% comfortable with “betraying” his marriage and nation, so I have to ask myself, what would it take for him to do that? I’ve come up with some possible answers, but nothing that’s really stuck.

@Ponku, Don’t worry; Morgana and Lancelot’s relationship won’t get any more romantic than it is now without a whole lot of prodding from Guen. As I said, they’re both lots more comfortable with the status quo. And no mater what happens, I suspect that Morgana will continue to find reasons to complain (affectionately) about both Lance and Arthur. As for the transferability of the non-love spell… well, anything I could say would be too much of a spoiler, but suffice it to say that such thoughts have occurred to me.

[jeantown]

And now, totally unrelated, a bug question: Has anyone encountered a bug where Guen can tell Lancelot to get Meligaunt’s sword even if he’s not going to Michaelsmount? …or any other bugs with the various instructions she can give at the end of that scene, if she and Lance are splitting up? I’m going to overhaul that part anyway, but apparently there’s a very sneaky bug in there somewhere, and can’t find it. ):

[Choobacca]

Oh, no, I totally agree with you. I like having Morgana all to my Guen as well