Guenevere (WIP)

[poison_mara]

Could you add a though in evil tactician Guens about if you want Arthur return or not?? Something i hope the sheep giant kill the brainless arthur . There is no way i send lancelot or i go there to save him.

Also i ended with 41 tactics and 19 dark magic are that a good combo?

My Guen doesnt want peace before the attack of camelot she is confident to send them back of ships, that would help her to pact a good aliance for britain sake, hippie has not the inteligence or cinism enough to obtain a good pact, he is too goody for the sake of kingdom

[attolia]

I’ve played this a couple times since yesterday. My 'kind-hearted and responsible" Guen chose to go after the device w/o Lance but now I can’t remember where she asked Lance to go. I also told my fae dog to escape so I’m really hoping he is able to find to Morgana Although now that someone has mentioned I think it’s a better idea to have him go with Meligaunt and potentially help Arthur. I guess I trust Morgana to be able to fend for herself more than I trust Arthur to NOT do something stupid, and this is coming from a Guen who genuinely loves him.

Can I mention how much I LOVED the love scene where Guen orders Arthur around like a servant? And he enjoyed it??? I’m hoping we get more scenes like that in the future, haha. Maybe not necessarily romantic scenes but scenes in which Guen takes the reins and Arthur is more than happy to follow her. I like to think that Arthur is a little in awe of Guen.

[MutonElite]

Just finished my first playthrough of book II and before that, my second playthrough of Book I, where I tried to do the same choices as Before (though this time I managed to keep both my body-guards!). It seems in the first book, I made all the right decisions but now I made all the wrong ones. =P

I was pretty useless for the first half, I was too busy trying to chase the duchess away from Lance and dropping snide-bombs to do anything useful. And that blasted distracting carrot! I ended up stabbing it into Meligaunt in the end, kinda sad to see it gone really. Gwen the carrot queen.

Finally got to sleep with Lance, but grr Morgana is being so difficult! All I want is all of them in my bed at once, is that so bad? And I don’t want to have to lie to her to get there either. That’s a thing I miss from book I btw, the option to stay consistent that I want all of them as opposed to having to favor one or two. There is one instance where you can choose to say, I’m happy I’ve got two men in my life, but there’s no option to include Morgana in that, you can say that you care about her more than the others afterwards, but that’s not true for me. I am greedy in all aspects, power as well as relations. Next playthrough I’ll lie and hope to patch it together later.

I let Catface escape, because I was worried Meligaunt would try to harvest his parts if I let him go with him.

I stayed behind on the boat willingly but didn’t argue Morgana’s escape. I would have liked to quip a sarcastic comment when they came down the hull. As it were, I stayed silent because the one sarcastic one would A) Show my hand if he truly didn’t know to give us spices, and B) If it was his intention that I escape it would have been dumb to seem like I didn’t realize it.

I went back to Camelot to seize power and the love of the people, I sent Lance to help Arthur because I don’t want to tend to a cripple in the future. And I told Lance to fetch me the blade.

I also told the duchess about the kitchen, I don’t think she’ll be in time to stop her forces anyways, and as long as there’s the initial blow to us I’ll have every reason for a war, but I’ll also have some good will with her kingdom, I’ll have my cake and eat it too. XD In the end, I hope to make a grand empire, not just Britain, but as much as I can get my mitts on.

That’s one thing I love about you as an author. 99% of the time, you make me feel like I’m not compromising. That’s awesome! And the jokes and sarcastic comments, spot on. Love what you’ve done, as always, keep it up! mwah!

[jeantown]

@AngelOfTheBroken I’m sorry to hear about the bad week, and very glad the update was able to cheer you up! With Arthur’s actions in the first few scenes, I was trying hard to make it so that people could have a range of different reactions, from “aw, that’s cute,” to “omg I want to kill him,” so I’m glad it came off that way to you. (I guess this is also responding to @Princess…) I deliberately wanted to make it feel like Arthur overtrusting Meligaunt, bringing in the sheep, and following the wrong Guen could be a bit of a strain on the marriage, depending on Guen’s personality, so if those things were frustrating, then I feel like I succeeded. The idea was maybe to make Guen a little more disposed toward a romance with Morgana or Lancelot, and/or to put a little tension in her relationship with Arthur so they can make up with each other at the end (or not) and develop their relationship more. A loyal/faithful Guen who forgives Arthur for his mistakes should get some nice moments at the end. Thanks for telling me about your Guen’s plans; that’s really helpful. And I’m glad you enjoyed playing it so much!

@Princess Some of the above is responding to your post, but I’ll add that if Guen sincerely wants to have a friendship with Lancelot, that can happen eventually, once the magic touch-reaction gets sorted out and he has a better sense of what’s going on. And it sounds like choosing the Camelot path makes a lot of sense for your Guen. I imagine Arthur is going to be grateful to her.

[jeantown]

@Wonderboy Very glad that you enjoyed the game and that you appreciate the brutality of the cliffhanger-choice! I wanted it to be tough. Yes, Arthur and Morgana can’t die, but that doesn’t mean bad things won’t happen. But your Guen’s choices make a ton of sense. It seems quite reasonable for her to decide that Arthur and Morgana have the resources and abilities to deal with their situations, while the larger-scale problems should get priority. I’m still trying to figure out how many different types of battles I can include in the Camelot branch and still finish it before 2050, but I would like for Guen to have to make some tough choices there, like whether to accept a siege or ride out to open battle… I guess I’ll have to wait and see what works and what doesn’t, but it’s good to know someone would be interested in a siege scenario.

[Mirabella]

Ok, I know you’re busy, so I’ll answer your question first and save the gushing for later.

Choosing who to send where was, hands-down, one of the most difficult choices I have ever faced in a CoG. My Guen chose to send Lance to Frankmarch because he knows the language, and it would be best if they can stop the invasion before it even happens. She then ran off to go save Arthur. Once Guen saves him, can she punch him for chasing a fake Guen? She still loves him, of course, but failing to recognize his own wife is not very endearing. My Guen decided not to find Morgana because she can take care of herself, and because Britain and Arthur are her two greatest priorities; even though Morgana would be a huge asset, the time it would take to find her could be spent helping Britain prepare or saving Arthur.

I would like to give Lance specific instructions for how to handle whatever he is sent to do. For example, if he goes to Frankmarch, Guen can ask him to either focus on peace or focus on sabotaging Frankmarch, politically or militarily (or both). Depending on their relationship and how morally ambiguous the task is, Lance may or may not follow orders.

My dog keeps proving to be the most competent person there. Is he going to save the day in the end? Like in Anchorman?

[jeantown]

@sandwoman Sounds good… I hope you’ll try both branches once they’re written. Hanging on to the carrot is supposed to be something that most people won’t get right until a second playthrough, just to add something fun to a replay. But it might also be bugged… If Guen wants to keep the carrot, she needs to keep it through the sheep scene and then grab it when she’s preparing to leave her room or is about to be attacked there – she has to choose the carrot rather than her sword or spell bag, if she has either of those things. If you didn’t get the option to grab the carrot in her room (wow that sounds kind of dirty), could you let me know? I want to make it easy to miss on a first playthrough, but not too hard to find on a second time

@ricepatrick182 It’s good to know that my attempt to make Arthur a little frustrating is succeeding… and good to know that you saw it as a possible setup for why Guen might get together with Lance. I think it’s reasonable to imagine that after three years of marriage, things might not be 100% perfect (depending on Guen’s own attitude toward such things as sheep in the castle). I’m sure many Guens will find Lance problematic, but I’m glad to know that some could be more inclined toward him after what happens.

[jeantown]

To anyone who really likes the game and wants to share in someone else’s playthrough: You might want to read thesunfloweramazon’s tumblr liveblog of their playthroughs last night; their reactions seriously had me laughing out loud. http://uxoriosis.tumblr.com/

@thesunfloweramazon Thank you (again) for all of your wonderful commentary and feedback; it’s everything I dream of when I’m writing.

I had hoped that political/tactical Guens might have an especially tough choice. There certainly isn’t a “right” answer or even (I hope) a “best” one, just different ones. I’m trying to set things up so that most people won’t get success in two branches on a first playthrough, but maybe on a second one. (Just sending Lancelot on its own is not a guarantee of success in an unchosen branch. It helps a lot, but other factors will be in play). I want to make it so that success in all three branches miiiiight maybe be possible, but you’d have to do a bunch of playthroughs, and maybe draw some charts, to figure out how to get everything in perfect alignment. Also I guess I’ll mention that failure on any or all of the branches is possible, even on the one Guen chooses for herself.

Your canon Guens’ choices make total sense. I love Ace!Guen’s giving into her identity-desire against her better judgment. The choice about the pet can (obviously, I hope) affect some outcomes. The pet won’t die. At the moment, he has more plot armor than anyone.

As for the sword, even maxed-out-dark-magic Guen can’t hang onto it during the boat-escape, but she’ll have another chance to master it if she goes to Michaelsmount. That said, there will probably be another powerful magic item that will be more appropriate for your Guens (in later books). Destroying the sword will be an option.

I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts!

[sirgalahad]

Ah I’m glad it made you happy! I feel kind of bad though, since I would (will probably) make a bigger serious post on my thoughts and such. If I just left it as silly comments and ‘omg cute’ gushing, that wouldn’t do.

Oooh dear, that does sound difficult. I hope I don’t fully fail at least! I guess it all depends in skills/who or what ends up where. To succeed at all three though is definitely a goal!

Yep, she just can’t resist the Always Save The Girl (Boy?) trope. Sorry about all that war training you gave her, Guen Papa, maybe in the next book. This is the time for saving the babe, possibly dashingly.

Speaking of the babe, I wonder if he’s gonna have to make it up to Guen AGAIN since he didn’t recognize her while Lance and Morgana could. ‘DAMMIT ARTHUR SHE’S NOT EVEN HALF AS ATTRACTIVE AS I AM HOW COULD YOU?’

Oh I’m glad! I was gonna retry it and see if I could get it if I tried to get a larger dark magic skill. Well, there will be sexier swords, I am sure.

Also I wanted to ask- I played through the massage scene with Arthur a few times, there is the kiss one/go to sleep one, and there are two ‘continue the massage’ choices, are they supposed to lead to the same exact dialogue, or is this just a case of them supposed to be just different tones of the same thing, but the difference in tone is just more subtle?

[Pieces]

Perhaps sadistically, I’m wondering if there’s a way to keep Lancelot in love with Guen even when she isn’t interested in him. I’m maybe kind of amused at the idea of twisting the knife every so often and watching him struggle to keep everything “normal”?

[jeantown]

@ceecrab ahaha I hope you got some sleep at some point! I loved reading your responses and questions. You are clearly a master of the new forum’s emoji system. Me, I just keep typing european post offices and non-potable water symbols . (seriously who thinks of these things?)

There will indeed be more of the four mains together in part 3 – right now I’m planning for them all to do the main quest of part 3 as a group. I needed to isolate them in part 2 so that Guen could more clearly define her relationships (particularly possible romances, of course) with each one, but I love writing them all together and can’t wait to be working on part 3 for that reason.

Yes, Arthur being such a dork in the first half is very much building toward a chance for Guen to tell him he needs to grow some common sense. I’ve always intended that she would be able to “harden” him (in the Dragon Age sense ), and now you can probably see how things are headed toward that. One of the reasons I originally wanted to wait to update until all of part 2 was finished was because I was afraid Arthur would seem utterly stupid in the first half. He’s not. He’ll be able to recognize his mistakes and change.

You know you don’t really have to choose between Arthur and Lancelot, right?

Somebody on tumblr made the extremely good point that if Lancelot IS being mind-controlled and Guen has sex with him, it would count as non-consensual (even if she’s not aware that it is). I didn’t want readers to feel like they had unintentionally made someone have non-con sex, so I’ve been going out of my way to try to make it clear that there’s no mind-control. That said, I think it’s fair for Lancelot to point out that Guen is basically taking advantage if she thinks his judgment is compromised.

How Lance feels about Guen IF the spell is broken (you’ll have to choose) will basically depend on the trust stat, along with a couple of fairly obvious make-or-break decisions (like if Guen told him to address her as “your majesty,” he’s done).

It was fun to imagine Morgana being vulnerable. Trusting people scares her. She’s okay with Guen and Arthur because she feels like they don’t have a choice about it. Morgana has a husband and children of her own, so she knows how that goes; it’s just a reality of their positions. But if Guen is with Lance, Guen is making a deliberate choice to divide her affections, and Morgana can’t deal with that. She does seem inordinately paranoid and jealous specifically about Lance, though… hm… could make you wonder if maybe there’s more going on there than just not wanting to share Guen…

So, light magic vs. dark. Light magic is for healing, and LM spellcasting doesn’t require components. Dark magic requires specialized knowledge of lots of different components. Since the padzar stone is just magical in its own right and wasn’t used to cast a spell per se, I figured that LM!Guen would know about it because of its healing properties (not necessarily as a spell component), and DM!Guen would know about it just because she would know a lot about magical items like that. Checking the bedroom for magic, like any kind of diviniation/discernment sort of spell, is dark magic (because it’s not healing/buffing). It requires components and skills that LMonly!Guen wouldn’t have any reason to know about. Same with the spells Morgana casts on the boat. non-DM!Guen can help a little by preparing components under Morgana’s direction, but she can’t do the magic herself.

I think Arthur still wants to believe that he bought the necklace and Lancelot was just the messenger/consultant. Like at first he’s thinking just of the merchant and the mechanics by which the necklace was acquired (Lance bought it), but he corrects himself because he intended it to be a gift from him, and wants to think of it that way. And yeah, he also probably didn’t want the other people in the room to know that he didn’t buy it himself. Servants gossip a lot.

Oh, bebe! Fixed locally, live on next update. Thank you – spellcheck would not have found that.

Yep, the doppelgangers’ different personalities/skills were inspired by different ways readers might build their Guens. I guess it’s an acknowledgement that each playthrough is sort of its own AU with its own AU Guen. I enjoy meta stuff way too much. But the inspiration was some versions of Arthurian stories that have a “false Guenevere” impostor who pretends to be the queen, so it’s not totally unconnected to Arthurian stuff.

Yay, I created a tough choice!! The ending will be a combination of a gazillion different things, so it will depend on what your particular Guen thinks is good or bad – more a question of achieving her priorities and minimizing her losses than getting happy or unhappy endings. I think the combination you picked (Guen to find Morgana and Lance to go to Arthur) should pay off, depending on other factors.

Thanks again for all of the positive feedback and enthusiasm! It really does keep me writing, and I’m grateful.

[JTAL]

Oh my so much goodness.

And you call this unpolished? Can’t wait to see it with polish then, ha! Had a great time, just what I needed to take my mind of some less fortunate circumstances currently afoot. Thank you for sharing what you had done so far on book II.

Keep up the good, nay, excellent work!

[Zanite]

Well part 2 is great!

Overall. Would you says it’s more advantageous to focus in one or two skills, or try and raise them all equally? Or would either approach work?

[poison_mara]

@jeantown dear where is the conflictive choice!? Or difficult My Guen never fill it difficult lol. Arthur for her he could die by famine before she move a finger to save him. The french my girl is inteligent enough to dont help the spy of contrary she want divide the stupid queen cause a civil war and destroy the army near Camelot. If french are in a precarius situation Guen could make them pay with a pretty peace compensation in gold like The Versalles treaty in the end first world war. About Morgana she is hot so i sent Barbie to protect her. Really i hardly doubt you make in all books a choice difficult for me. Bioware was the only capable of did that twice. With Wrex and Mordin Me3 situation about genofage. And Legion Tali in same game. And i did the paragon thing. I just couldnt betray wrex and shoot mordin and i make peace with geth quarians.

[jeantown]

@poison_mara I tried to imply that evil Guen could go to Michaelsmount specifically to make sure Arthur gets killed or injured (okay we know he has plot armor and won’t die, but injured, anyway) – in fact, I was hoping maybe your Guen would have a hard time deciding which she wanted more: to take over the army or to make sure that something bad happens to Arthur (and get the sword). She will be able to go to Michaelsmount with that intention. It’s not specifically on the list of choices, but I think I might need to do some revision to how those are set up anyway. So maybe I can be more explicit about that option – it’s definitely there. Of course, if you want to go to Michaelsmount to make sure Arthur gets injured, don’t take Lancelot!

And maybe, even if Guen doesn’t go to Michaelsmount, I can work in an acknowledgement that she hopes something bad will happen to Arthur. I’m still trying to figure out exactly what background variables to use to offer the more ruthless inner-monologue options, but I think I’m getting close.

It might be an interesting challenge for you to try to achieve a ruthless/evil outcome on all three branches at once. Though your Guen maybe wouldn’t feel that ongoing war with the Franks could be a good thing? I tried to show that deliberately choosing to maintain the war for a while could have some benefits, but that option won’t be for everyone.

Anyway, if your Guen goes to Camelot with a 41 in leadership and a 19 in dark magic, she should be able to wipe the floor with the Frankish army! I tried to hint that the Camelot path is a good option for a Guen with high leadership.

[jeantown]

@attolia Glad you liked it enough to replay! Trusting Morgana to be able to fend for herself, but not being so sure about Arthur, sounds like a wise move to me. The fae pet can be helpful wherever he ends up, so it’s just a question of how you want to allocate your resources and if your Guen is okay with taking the risk of sending him with Meligaunt.

Glad you liked the undressing scene! I wanted something that could feel fun and playful and intimate for a Guen and Arthur with a healthy relationship, but maybe a bit questionable in a situation where Guen is deliberately manipulating him outside the bedroom, too. If Arthur’s trust stat is high enough, he should be willing to follow Guen’s lead more and more in the future. I like to think he’s a little in awe of her too.

[jeantown]

@MutonElite Congrats on keeping Bretta alive in part 1; it will make a difference in the second half of 2! Guen can’t be extraordinarily useful in the first half of 2 anyway, because there’s no way to get out of being kidnapped. (She has lots of ways to gain power/agency in the second half, but I hate having posted only the parts in which Guen is stuck being relatively passive.) But if you managed to wound Meligaunt, then you did well. And I’m glad you figured out how to use the carrot against him. Of course, if Guen hangs onto the carrot, it could have other uses later… but you found a good one.

Hm, that is a very good point that part 2 could use some inner-thought acknowledgement if Guen is interested in more than one LI at the same time. I wrestled with those final thoughts at the end of part 1 and still am not 100% happy with them, for the reasons you’re giving. Guen absolutely WILL be able to have an ot3 with Morgana and Lancelot; I personally ship that particular combo harder than anything else in the story, so it’s going to happen, even if it doesn’t seem likely right now. Morgana just needs to go through some character development first (part 3). Unfortunately there won’t be any 4-way orgies, because Arthur and Morgana would be way too squicked by that (especially after what happens in part 3), but you can have the obvious relationship with Arthur and then Guen/Lance/Morgana separately. You’re right that I should try to slip in more acknowledgement that this can be a thing Guen wants, since the reader probably needs to be reassured that it will be possible eventually.

I’m delighted that you chose the option not to escape! I wasn’t sure if anyone would go for that, but I didn’t want to force Guen to escape if she didn’t want to. I reallyreally want to work in some kind of benefit for choosing that option, like Guen overhears some information she might be able to use later, but I haven’t figured out yet what that would be – need to write the later parts to discover what exactly might be useful.

Sneaky move with Tilda… I hadn’t even thought of that, but it could work very well. Depending on how things go, you could end up at war, but with Tilda herself being well-disposed toward you. Could be very useful indeed!

Thanks for all of your comments and encouragement! Much needed and appreciated!

[jeantown]

@Mirabella Glad to hear it was a tough decision! Sending Lance to Frankmarch is a sensible choice; the language barrier is a real problem (though not insurmountable) if Guen goes there on her own. Will Guen be able to punch Arthur? Hmm, I hadn’t specifically thought of that as an option among the various ways she can show her displeasure, but it might work, depending on how things go. By the time she catches up with him, he may already be feeling pretty remorseful.

I’d like to add options for giving Lance more specific instructions, too, and have him succeed with them only if his trust level is high enough. Right now if Guen sends him to Michaelsmount, she can tell him to get Meligaunt’s sword (which he’ll do if trust is high), but I agree that there could be more of that. The Frankmarch branch is already ridiculously overcomplicated (27,000 words in one scene!!!), but I’m slowly accepting that I may have to add some options for working against peace (like assassinating somebody) rather than for it. If I include those, then Guen can of course tell Lancelot to do them accordingly.

haha, the dog may indeed save some days, depending on what else happens and where you sent him.

[Princess]

@jeantown - It definitely worked because my Guen was extremely ticked off that instead of staying with her to make sure he’s 100% confident she’s not real, he decides to jump out the window to save the other one! But it’s hard staying mad at Arthur so she’ll probably forgive him.

@jeantown

She does seem inordinately paranoid and jealous specifically about Lance, though… hm… could make you wonder if maybe there’s more going on there than just not wanting to share Guen…

Some of their interactions makes me think they really like one another (Morgana and Lance) especially since I see their arguing more as flirting especially during the sheep round-up. I feel like she’s trying really hard to convince herself that he’s super annoying (and of course, she’s married and has kids so that probably plays into it as well.) But I think that even if their personalities are a little bit different, they kind of play the same role in Arthur’s life which relates them more to each other. They’re both looking out for him and aren’t afraid to tell him that he’s being too idealistic. They’re both his anchors that keep him grounded in reality (or at least try to.)

[jeantown]

@thesunfloweramazon Oh, I look forward to the bigger serious thoughts. I value your insights and suggestions a lot. I do hope you’ll be able to figure out how to succeed on all three branches (or prove that it can’t be done, in which case I’ll make some adjustments). Arthur’s going to know he messed up. I’ll have to think about some good possibilities for how Guen can handle that. As for the kiss vs. massage, um, hm, it’s been so long since I wrote that part… skimming through the file, I think that the kiss basically moves you to the next phase (which is talking for a while longer, sex, or sleep)… and the two massage options might both lead to the same thing on the next screen, but having two sort of forecasts that you can chose to let him keep going until Guen falls asleep, or tell him to stop and then shift to the same options as you’d get with the kiss. So basically different tones, I guess, or not a ton of difference anyway.

@Pieces Oh, yes. At the end of part 1, just select the option that says Guen is manipulating him. She’ll get most of the same romance options, but it will be clear that she’s not really in love with him. And even if she’s not manipulating him but tells him she’s in love with him, the game takes that lightly in terms of how it determines her feelings – if Guen doesn’t, at some point, think to herself that she’s genuinely romantically interested in him, the game shouldn’t make that assumption. Or she can say things like “You know I want to, but we can’t…” and string him along that way. Alternatively, Guen can consider Lancelot just a friend but still have sex with him anyway (and tell him that’s what she’s doing). He’ll accept it, but he may have to work hard to try to keep acting like it’s just a friends thing if his own feelings are stronger than that.

@JTAL Thank you! I am a type-A control freak, so a single quotation mark being out of place seems unpolished to me. Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for the encouragement!

@Zanite Thanks! Generalization vs. specialization really depends on what you want to do and what you think fits your Guen’s personality. Part 2 has a few moments where Guen can use two skills in combination, so having more skills overall could be useful for that. But certain other skill checks require a very high stat in that skill, so if you want to accomplish those things (like, for example, obliterating the attacking army with your leadership skill), you’ll need to sink a lot of points into that one. I’m trying to make it so there isn’t really a “best” distribution of skill points, just different options and outcomes.

@poison_mara Ah, well, my hopes are dashed. I’ll keep trying. But no, I never thought you’d feel conflicted about whether or not to save Arthur, just whether or not to try to make sure he suffers. I’m well aware that he would have been dead within the first 30 seconds of the wedding if you had your way.

@Princess That is a very insightful analysis. Guen should be able to explore Morgana and Lancelot’s history and relationship more in part 3, and I am really really looking forward to writing that.