@Ponku You certainly don’t have to like Mordred – he will be evil, after all. 
As for Arthur, I would really like to make it so that Guen can help him grow up a bit. I’ll have to wait and see how much nuance I can put into how his personality changes over time.
Guen won’t be able to get pregnant before Mordred is conceived. If she and Arthur have a child, there will have to be some intervention, which won’t be effective until part 4.
Link link link link link cheeseburger link
@darkstar2101 Are you seriously too lazy to just find the link on the first page? It’s not like it’s hard to find…
Ha, yeah, makes you realize how important labels can be, right?
Yeah, it can be a complication to explain it. But from a mostly-aro asexual, I can offer up some suggestions? I’ve had LOTS of experience trying to explain it in the most succinct way possible without actually using the word, lol. Heck, I spent years trying to explain it to myself without knowing the word. XD
The best way that I can think of how you could explain it in-game- something like this?
Guen:
“I’m not really interested in people that way.” (Can be interpreted as saying any- or any combo of- ace or celibate or aro.)
“I’m not really…attracted to other people, you know? I don’t see them that way.” (Ace Specific)
Morgana:
“So, what does that mean? Does that mean no sex, or romance, for you?”
Guen:
“Sex is fine, but no thanks to romance.” (Non-celibate Aro Ace/Het/Bi/Etc.)
“No sex! And I love is great, but courtly love only, please!” (Romantic Celibate Ace/Het/Bi/Etc.)
“Nope!” (Aro Celibate Ace/Het/Bi/Etc.)
Morgana:
“Then I respect that, and I hope things work out etc. etc.”
Or such.
On the romantic celibate Guens especially- Arthurian Lit is famous for courtly love (even though it has as many stories of it backfiring as many as it does of it succeeding, Lancelot and Guen being #1) aka non-sexual love being considered lovely and fulfilling and not going past kissing. Only in Guen and Arthur’s case, they’re not in separate classes like this usually went with, and they got married.
So I would at least imagine that someone saying 'Yo, this is the only type of love I want. Sex is way gross to me." wouldn’t be considered too out there.
The trick, I would think, would be if Arthur- or Lancelot or Morgana- would be satisfied with that themselves. Since, again, a lot of courtly loves in Arthurian Lit ended up with someone not being able to take it.
Jeantown you really have a lot of comments and I what you to good job on taking the time to write what you did because my finger hurts writing this =D>
Another thing people who played this I thought it would be cool to tell your Guen’s personality like my is a good girl who is trying to be nice and kind to everyone she can and she does the right thing and is brave as hell (right now don’t know if politics will change her yet) but she also has mixed feelings for Lance and Aurther she doesn’t know who to love and also hopes she finds a friend with Aurther’s sister ( sorry forgot name of her just a brain fart)
@ricepatrick182 You could at the end of game review your choices and explain yourself why or what you feel about people. I preffer that to game says you are a evil bitch buuuu! go away loser .
Now seriusly , I hate when a game assumes you are this and this from my choices, normally have few choices and end breaking all my experience. I think we dont need a label designed by author to describe our characters due this game is too complex for that. I choose same responses a good Guen for really different reasons and manipulate 3 romance characters .So i doubt @jeantown have enough labels to describe all options. Also if you do a evil character being called a manipulative bitch could make you lost fans .
@darkstar2101 The revised version is just under the original link. Part 2 won’t be appearing for a long time yet, but at least I have now gotten a substantial way into scene 4 of part 2, so progress is happening!
@thesunfloweramazon THANK YOU; this is all extremely useful. I hadn’t thought of building in courtly love as overtly as you’re suggesting. That’s a brilliant idea. I’d never really thought about courtly love in the contemporary terms of romantic asexual activity. (But now I feel rather dumb for not having thought of it that way.) The sticking-point is indeed how the other characters might react. That was where I hit a wall with both the Arthur-lesbian explanation and the Morgana-asexual explanation. I had some Guen dialogue options something like what you’re suggesting (yours are more elegant and authentic-sounding), and then the other character asked what this might mean for their relationship, and Guen could say a few different things, and then… everything I tried to write for the LI’s reaction just felt wrong. “Oh, okay, I mean, I like sex and all, but that’s totally fine” seemed kind of… shallow? unrealistic? trivializing? (particularly in Arthur’s case, where there’s the heir issue.) So then I tried to make it more complex, where the LI needed some time to think about what that might mean for the relationship, but would eventually decide that things could work… and that was where it just got too far beyond the scope of the game. But I’m going to keep trying different things, and the courtly love idea is super-helpful. As far as I know, no one’s dealt with these issues in a game in quite this way, so I’m frontier territory here. (I think?)
@ricepatrick I like hearing about your Guen’s personality; every time someone describes their Guen, I get a different perspective on the game. I’ve heard so many different versions that I think @MaraJade is right; no matter how many personality-description options I might put into the game, someone would be left out! What I hope to do is make the game respond to Guen’s personality as much as I can, so that certain options and reactions will show that the personality you’re building is making a difference within the game-world.
Oh, that does sound like an interesting possibility @jeantown. Although the inner workings of, court I suppose, are always amazingly fun to play I find that it can get a bit monotonous. At least in a few other demos that have twirled around our little forum.
I’m sure that wont happen with this, simply because of the fast pace centered around character, meaning they are all very developed already.
I would say however that this invasion may have been slightly understated, perhaps purposefully. Maybe to exemplify an event to burst into being in part 2?
*Digs cheekily for information* 
EDIT: God, you churn out replies like a warhorse on steroids.
@dannyjohnr Yeah, I keep thinking I should spend less time talking about the game and more time actually writing it… but all the discussion really does help me refine my thoughts and make better plans.
I’d like to try the best I can to keep political issues always directly connected to the main characters in one way or another. When Guen has to decide whether or not to execute Hrothulf, some of her motivation might come from knowing what the other characters think/want, or at least she might have to take their potential motivations into account – or maybe she doesn’t care what they think, but her decision will still affect her relationships with them. Political elements will, I hope, continue to be connected to main-character relationships, since those are supposed to be at the center of the game.
You’re right that the world-building in part 1 is rather hazy. I’m relying on the reader to accept a certain amount of vague reference to mythic/fantasy equivalents of real-world people and places – Saxons, Gaul, Rome, Byzantium… and, I guess, I’m relying on readers to have enough of a sense of what e.g. Rome might represent, mythically and archtypically, that they don’t need a ton of explanation right away. The Romano-Saxon invasion is indeed understated, partly because it’s happening at a personal level, and partly because Badon Hill is almost always an easy victory for Arthur in the different versions of the story, so the threat isn’t all that serious. Tensions may, of course, escalate to a wider scale in the future.
@jeantown Sorry to making waste time answering my silly questions , now i feel guilty :(( I promise post less to dont bother you.
“Oh, okay, I mean, I like sex and all, but that’s totally fine” seemed kind of… shallow? unrealistic? trivializing?"
Well, I guess that would depend. From my own dating experience, when I’m not dating someone already celibate, I either date people who just really do not care whether they are or aren’t- so I would say that is actually realistic, there are many people like that, and it’s a very real way for how these kind of romances work out- or I have an open relationship, so we both have other people who could meet our needs, etc.
Well, concerning Morgana and Lancelot and the celibacy thing- maybe it could just be a ‘let’s be lovers, but let’s not have sex, that way we’re not ~technically~ doing anything wrong and we don’t get executed for treason and whatnot. Also, I hate sex, so. Yeah.’ But, of course, I’m guessing Morgana or Lancelot might end up unhappy in that situation, unless they’d honestly be fine with the courtly love deal.
But with Arthur, yeah. But I wanted to ask- IS there going to be a ‘well, we’re really not having sex, what are we going to do?’ convo? I mean, whether Guen only likes the ladies or hates Arthur or only sees him as a friend, I’m guessing he’s not gonna keep thinking it’ll eventually happen or she’ll change her mind or be ready after 10+ years.
ARGH I JUST FIND IT A REALLY INTERESTING SITUATION.
Cause I mean, like- Guen was forced into the marriage. Even if she was like ‘Yo, guys, I’m not planning to have sex,’ I doubt anyone would have given up the chance for her to marry Arthur anyway and figured she’d just do it anyway.
But then she marries Arthur. Since Arthur would not prefer to be celibate, they’re kind of rail-roaded- they could divorce, or agree to have another person on the side.
BUT you said Arthur would never do that, right? Which kind of puts the ball in his court. Guen did not have a choice in her marriage, she has the right to be celibate if she wants. Plus, if she offers the choices above to him, but he wouldn’t think of divorce, or having a person on the side, then he’s going to be stuck.
On one hand, it’s awful to end up having to bend your morals, or divorce when you planned on staying with one person forever, but this was a forced situation, he can’t MAKE Guen sleep with him, and that’s partly just life, too.
HMMPHHH I just find this combo really fascinating, and especially sad if they love each other romantically and make a good team as monarchs. They’re just incompatible in this way. Much sadder for Guen, though, imo.
ALSO I’m really sorry for distracting you or interfering too much! Ahaha, I care too much about this kind of thing but I guess it’s close to home. I promise to make comments on the thread sparser and less…wordy.
@thesunfloweramazon You are viewing this for a XXI century perspective about a fact of VI century. Im studing History now and i could grant you a real Arthur could oblidge Guen have sex marriadge gives TOTALLY POWER OVER WIFE AND INCLUDES FORCED SEX, HE EVEN COULD EXECUTE HER FOR TREASON . Or if he is good jailed her for life. I know here is a fantasy but rape your 12 year wife in wedding night was a nordic custom that supposedly make women more able to have children. So a celibe Guen has to be seeing badly for medieval people at least for peasant views .
Yeah, but Arthur would never do that, of course, so the above stands, I’d think.
As for peasants/the castle’s opinion, they don’t have to know what they’re doing- they might suspect if they’re not sleeping in the same room, butttt generally that’s still rumors, especially if they’re lovely-dovey outside the bedroom. (And I’d hope the people who clean the sheets don’t investigate the laundry too closely. Gross!)
Heck, monarch couples who did it all the time occasionally had rumors swirl that they weren’t sleeping together anymore when they definitely were- sort of like celebrity couples, who get magazine articles about them not living together or are fighting despite it not being that way, etc.
@MaraJade and @thesunfloweramazon Oh, no, please post as much and as often as you like! It means so much to me that people are interested enough to help me think through these things, and every time someone posts something, I’m more motivated to work on the game. I have nights when I come home from work exhausted and just want to watch anime, and then I see a post here, and I think, “Well, maybe I could write a little…” So please don’t feel like you’re wasting anyone’s time at all!
So, to deal with the last thing first, @MaraJade, the great thing about writing a fantasy world is that I get to pick and choose how much historical real-world awfulness I want to include. Yes, the people will be unhappy if Guen doesn’t produce an heir, and they might want Arthur to replace her. But Arthur is atypical and exceptional, and his whole sense of self is wrapped up in thinking he’s the most virtuous person who ever lived. If Guen says she won’t have sex with him, he’s unlikely to tell anyone except Lancelot and maybe Morgana. At first, he’ll hope that maybe she’ll change her mind (he’ll never 100% understand). After a lot of time passes (as @thesunfloweramazon points out), he’ll probably have to accept that it’s not going to happen. What he does about it may depend on different factors. He’ll certainly never force himself on her, and he won’t want to divorce her. He’ll just have to find alternatives to having a child with her. I do have a specific plan for what those alternatives will be; I just don’t want to talk about them too much yet.
Anyway, @thesunfloweramazon, it’s an interesting situation to me, too, I think in part because it’s a chance to contemplate how we currently think about sexual identity in relation to our sense of myth and history. One the one hand, it’s a chance to validate some present-day thinking, because I can say, okay, here’s this character in a pseudo-historical mythic setting where concepts/terms like asexual and homosexual don’t exist (because people just didn’t think about those things as part of identity until relatively recently) but she can act in a way that’s consistent with what we understand of those identities, even if she doesn’t have the same labels for it. So… that’s a thing. On the other hand, I can use a historical situation, like an arranged marriage, or a fantasy situation, like a magic spell that causes physical chemistry between two people, to create circumstances that ask a lot of otherwise unthinkable what-ifs about our current constructions of sexual identity. (You’ll be getting even more of that at the end of part 2 and in part 3, by the way, and I just hope I can do it in a way that’s interesting and tasteful.)
But to speak more specifically to some of your points… the solution I ended up implementing for the difficult Morgana-asexual conversation was very close to what you describe; basically Guen just saying she’s not comfortable having sex because of “the circumstances,” which could mean that she’s married to someone else (and in Morgana’s case, they both are), and/or that she’s just not interested in sex. It felt like an okay short-term solution.
Of the three, Lancelot would (believe if or not) be the most open to a sexless love relationship. Not because he doesn’t want sex in general, but because he’ll feel so horrifically guilty about going behind Arthur’s back that if Guen wants boundaries, he’ll in some sense feel relieved. (courtly love indeed) Morgana, I’m still trying to figure out. If she really loves Guen, I think she could eventually commit to the parameters Guen is comfortable with. But Morgana is cynical and practical, and not an especially romantic person. Arthur, well, see above. As you say, if Arthur and Guen are a great couple otherwise, then it really is up to him to figure out what he’s willing to give up – which is, I agree, an interesting question. It’s an interesting spin on the traditional problem of Arthur having impossible ideals.
Okay, now I’m the one writing too much. But seriously, don’t anyone ever feel like you’re writing more than I would want to read. Every thought matters to me.
btw I feel I should clarify that I know arranged marriages still happen all the time, so I didn’t mean to imply that they’re exclusively historical. It’s just that many people who live in cultures where arranged marriage isn’t common tend to think of them as located in history.
Speaking as a reader I reckon it’s great how open you are being to what is eventually a big project for you and allowing readers to decide how they want to play and map out the three relationships for Guen, especially allowing for reader gut feelings - the Guen I was playing the first time felt drawn to Arthur and was growing to love him despite the arranged marriage, yet she can’t deny the fact there seems to be a spark between her and Lance. So kudos for all of that and I hope that continues to evolve in the next six (SIX?!) books.
Incidently you were asking me earlier to think of a suitable male character who has a similar love triangle in fiction and it suddenly hit me… Peter Pan! For a guy who seriously is against growing up and spends nearly all his time with boys it does occur to me that he has at least three solid love options - Wendy Darling, Tinkerbell and Tiger Lilly (and possibly the odd smitten mermaid). So I suppose a Peter Pan interactive would be cool, though I’m pretty certain he isn’t in the public domain.
@derekmetaltron ahaha I love the Peter Pan idea, which could get into very strange and interesting territory if the characters were adults… It really is difficult to come up with a mythic male character who has more than one woman in his life in a substantial way. I was trying to think of something Victorian and just kept coming up short. You did much better with it.
Anyway, thanks again for the comments on Guenevere… it really is too ambitious, but I’m one of those people who just keeps chipping away at things for however long it takes. (And this one really will take a looong time, but I hope it will be worth it.)
@ jeantown
Yes! It’s really interesting to see non-het people being written in historical fiction (or non-fiction) because so much of it is constantly washed away like they never existed, and still is, in an attempt to act like non-heterosexuality is a new thing. Especially with personal accounts/journals from people of varying sexualities very rarely surviving. So it’s lovely to see people remembering and writing in the fact that these identities, no matter what they were called, always existed and exploring what that means for them.
Concerning aces and/or celibate people in history, I remember one book- Elizabeth Abbot, I think- called ‘A History of Celibacy’. It has a part discussing asexuality and its place in history, how asexual people dealt with their positions, blended in, dealt with marriages, etc. She doesn’t use the word asexual to describe them, but she does describe it and mentions how it’s separate from celibacy, and about aces both celibate and non-celibate. The book has it’s problems, but it’s an interesting read.
(But bleh, I’m dragging on.)
ANYWAY, Lancelot being the one most open to it endears me even more to him, ahah! Even if the circumstances for him being relieved by it are a little sad. That’d be a really interesting spin on the whole ‘Guen cheats on Arthur with Lancelot’ scenario- Guen ending up loving Lancelot cause it’s easier being who she is with him, and instead of people kind of guilting her- purposefully or not- there is someone who is partly relieved she’d want that, even with the circumstances for why they feel so.
Though that is going to make the whole Elaine thing very…interesting. I feel like playing any celibate ace Guens is going to lead to me crying, though- in a good way. Well, not a good way, but you know what I mean- in a ‘I care about this character and their troubles.’ sort of way. XD
And, oops, wait, I just noticed I missed this:
“But to speak more specifically to some of your points… the solution I ended up implementing for the difficult Morgana-asexual conversation was very close to what you describe; basically Guen just saying she’s not comfortable having sex because of “the circumstances,” which could mean that she’s married to someone else (and in Morgana’s case, they both are), and/or that she’s just not interested in sex. It felt like an okay short-term solution.”
Oooh, is this for the next book? I didn’t come across it in any of my playthroughs. If it’s the next book, and you saying you explored more of the other stuff in book 2 in one of your previous replies, makes me EVEN MORE EXCITED.
What does it mean to be an ace?