If you don’t ask, you don’t get. Some questions have a time and a place, but to not ask is the greatest mistake a person can make imo :smile:

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@Jeantown in the future challenge accepted to win Mordreds heart, If I fail :-1: there is always the restart Button :+1:

And if i then still cant make him love Guvenere i will make a 1 hour movie, where i Will just scream dressed like Guen.

“WHY WONT YOU LOVE ME!!!” Shocking my mother so much that she will force me to a psychiatric. And when the psychiatric asks me what happened, i will say with tears running down my cheeks Jean happend:clap::grinning:

On difficult choices, I really like how much even the small choices in this game matter, and the impact they have on the way people react to you. I find it odd, and it makes the characters seem flat and unrealised and the game less satisfying, when the things you choose to do have no effect on anything. As a for instance, I was playing another WIP on here which was about being a nobleman at a thinly-veiled version of the court of Richard II, and at the beginning you could choose to be more courtly or more martial in your pursuits. But the choice didn’t seem to affect anything - being more interested in your clothes and your manners didn’t make you less good at battle (not that the two things are necessarily mutually exclusive, and a true flower of chivalry should of course be good at both, but they seemed to be set up this way here), or draw you into the crown prince’s faction (since Richard was hardly martial either). I know it’s painful when you have a choice where there isn’t an obvious right answer, but the other way of looking at it is that you get to make the choice which is right for your Guen – for instance if you’re smart and good at strategy it seems sensible to go and defend Camelot, whereas if you’re good at swordfighting/magic you might go and catch up with Arthur. And while to me it doesn’t seem like the best choice to send Guen on the diplomatic branch when she can’t speak Frankish, other people might well see it differently.

But I’m glad to know that you can get to a happier ending than the traditional Arthurian one (even if an Arthur/Guen/Lance poly relationship is out of the question) – as I’m posting the suggested posts at the bottom include a poll about how much tragedy you want in a game. Not TH White levels of tragedy, I can say that much!! I guess the death of Arthur, the breakup of the Round Table and Lance and Guen parting forever and taking holy orders has to be in there somewhere, but god it would be sad if you got to the end and couldn’t rescue any of it.

I’m really intrigued now as to who is the fifth character for part 3. (though I know we won’t get an answer!) Also, looking forward to seeing Galahad and Perceval.

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Wait, so will we have Mordred in this game? He was an important part of the Arthurian mythos.

In the original legends he was the product of an incestuous relation between Morgana and Arthur. Most accounts say Arthur was charmed through magic into going through with the act, but there’s even another account suggesting it was rape, which does paint a darker and less idealistic side to the mainstream version of Arthur.

In the BBC Merlin series he was a druid boy who came to hate Arthur after he executed his lover… the whole incest between Arthur and Morgana was cut out of there.

In the anime Fate / Stay Night franchise Mordred was a artificial homunculus clone of of the King.

It would certainly be interesting if Mordred does eventually appear in this Hosted Game, I’d be very interested to see what his origins are in this version.

@Harian It’s actually been discussed earlier in the thread, but I’ll spare you the details so you can still be surprised later.

However, I will confirm that Mordred WILL be in the game at some point. :slight_smile:

Not that I’m an advocate of incest or anything, I on the other hand find the idea of Mordred as Arthur’s illegitimate son from his sister to be (story-wise) a hard hitter, emotionally speaking. Sure, its pretty creepy as well… but that does add somewhat of a tragic curse on the character of Mordred, who in the legends killed Arthur and brought an end to Camelot’s golden age at the final battle in Camlann.

In some regards, I do almost feel sorry for Mordred, for the position he was born into.

Morgana’s own fall into the dark side is also quite fascinating, I really do wonder how her relationship with Arthur will turn out in this game. Though at this early point in the story I still can’t quite comprehend her actually charming and seducing Arthur leading up to Mordred’s conception… there’s room for a lot of character development.

Romance with Mordred is very intriguing… but if in this game he does turn out to be Arthur and Morgana’s son wouldn’t he be quite young compared to Guen? Like an 18 year difference in age? (unless of course he’s already secretly been conceived prior to the current story but even so he would still be too young… maybe he’ll appear in one of the later story arcs instead).

@derekmetaltron The other three characters will have something significant to do, but Guen won’t be choosing it for them – so it won’t be like the part 2 choice, where there’s at least one path not taken. (If I do that every time, I’ll never finish.) Guen will have to go one way, and she can pick her two companions, and the other three will go another way, and eventually they’ll all be reunited. At least, that’s my plan at the moment. And oh so many things can happen in an enchanted forest… (:

@LordOfLA I’d certainly rather have people ask/suggest than not! :smile:

@GloriaRose ahahaha Given your dedication, I’m sure you’ll be able to figure it out. (:

@camelionpoet Thank you! Some of the small choices in Guenevere are definitely just for flavor, to help the reader imagine Guen as a character, but I do try to have the other characters respond to, and remember, even small things. As for the big choice, I hope it will be a chance for people to think about their Guen’s priorities in a situation where she can’t solve everything. Is one of the other characters her top priorityr? Or is it going to the place where she can most effectively use and develop her chosen skills? Is her reputation or power the most important thing? Or maybe Britain and its people? Whatever she chooses, she’s going to have to let something else go, and I’m hoping that the threat of such loss will make the reader think hard about priorities.

But who said an Arthur/Guen/Lance poly relationship wouldn’t be possible? I certainly never said that. :slight_smile: I mean, A/G/L is practically canon for Arthurian lit at this point… As much as I feel it necessary to make things meaningful with a few really tough choices, I do feel that the purpose of a game like this is empowering wish-fulfillment, so I plan to write tons of different possible happy endings… and some less happy ones, so that getting a happy ending means something.

banana banana banana on the fifth character… but I will say that in the current plan, Perceval will appear as a child in part 4, and Galahad will be born between parts 4 and 5.

@Harian I’m guessing that, thanks to @OtherGrimm, you did a thread search by now… so yes, indeed there will be Mordred. In fact, he already has a very brief easter egg cameo in part 1. Morgana will not be the evil seductress of tradition (neither she nor Arthur will be responsible, per se, for Mordred’s conception), though people may accuse Morgana of bad things much later in the game. As for the age difference, Mordred may propose some workarounds for that issue, which Guen can accept or reject.

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Playing as a bisexual/gay male,on the gender thing,I actually feel totally in sync wuth Guen? Is that bad? It probably is…xD Stereotypes sux even when you’re part of one. :scream:

Does anyone else wish they could send their fae dog or cat after Morgana?

I know Morgana is an intelligent woman with magic up her sleeve, but I know my Guen would feel better if she could send her cat just to make sure.

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Personally i prefer healing my cat then sending it with whatever-his-name-is-i-cant-remember to attack him later when it gets the chance.

@StarScry I don’t know… but I hope that gender and sexuality are just two of many possible reasons for feeling in sync with a character? I know that those things can be pretty fundamental to how people identify with a protagonist, but there are lots of other factors. I’ve played male protagonists that I identify with strongly, and male protagonists that I don’t feel much connection with.

@stsword That’s a brilliant idea and would make total sense. Coding it could take a month, seriously, because of all the different places people might end up. (It already took ages and ages to write all the different ways that Guen and Lancelot might end up wherever they’re going if one of them starts by looking for Morgana.) I put it on the list of things to consider. If it doesn’t make it in, that’s because of time/priority issues, not because it doesn’t make 100% sense in terms of the plot. (and @Fallaner, sending the pet with Meligaunt will always be a valid option, and I’m glad to know that people are choosing it.)

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Don’t feel bad about being yourself! It doesn’t matter if some stereotype fit you or not, just do what you like and be what you like don’t mind if someone find it stereotype or not.

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oh boy came here and saw discussion about book 3

I am super excited for book 3. Omg, choosing out of five people to go to the forest is so interesting thanks to the possible combinations and the drama therin…if you’re romancing Lance and Arthur to go with them both, or Lance and Lance and Morgana for the same, and Morgana & Arthur would be something because if this is before Mordred then that means it might be the last time you hang out with them when they have a untainted relationship with each other. Going with Merlin is boring to me though. Not that he’s not interesting, butttttt I want drama and I need precious approval point building time and dangit Merlin, you don’t have a bar, sorry. And if the fifth person is who I think it is, going with them and with Arthur or Lance would be very delish.

And I can’t wait to see what the enchanted forest is like! I always like to see them in media (or enchanted swamps, which tend to go for the same sort of atmosphere). I wonder what kind of forest. The kind that attacks/talks/is alive? The kind you’re perpetually lost in or where weird people and creatures live? The kind with weird ruins, or the ones that cause hallucinations or prophetic visions?

Speaking of the forest- is it wrong to guess it might be based on Broceliande? I don’t know if that’s anywhere near Orkney, though, so I might be off. Unless you moved where it is, of course.

(Also, on the timeline, book IV changed right? I could’ve sworn it mentioned Arthur being kidnapped- if that’s still in but was erased because it’s meant to be a spoiler now, lmao, I’m sorry to bring it up. Or was it changed to something different or gotten rid of because Guen already gets kidnapped and it’s a retread. Or I might have hallucinated it. I definitely remember it used to say Lancelot was ‘forced’ to get married to Elaine but now it changed for the fact that his opinion might be different depending on circumstance, I guess.)

(Speaking of future books, it only says ‘families’ of Pellinore and Lot specifically, which has me wondering for a while if either man is actually around anymore. Also, not looking forward to be possibly choosing between my nephews or between Percival/Galahad. :frowning:)

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@thesunfloweramazon yaaaaaaay, questions that help me plan ahead! :smile:

Here’s hoping I can make the different character combinations as much fun as I want them to be. Poor Merlin; no trust bar. ): This will actually be after Mordred’s conception, but taking Arthur and Morgana ought to give Guen an opportunity to help them reconcile (not the only opportunity, though). Part of the reason I included the option for late-night drinking with Morgana and Arthur after the sheep-chasing was so that Guen (and the reader) could spend a little time with just the two of them before all the Mordred stuff happens.

The forest is planned to be vaguely in the area of the Cairngorms National Park in Scotland, but it will have more trees (due to being enchanted and all). It’s the narrative equivalent of Broceliande, but I’m a bit stuck on whether or not to call it that. (I’ve also considered calling it Darnantes.) I’m trying not to call most places by their present-day names, with a few small exceptions like Bath, because this is fantasy, and the geography is meant to correspond roughly but not exactly to the “real” world – so I’d feel weird calling the enchanted forest by the present-day name of any actual places in Scotland, since that just invites criticism from “accuracy” zealots. In terms of adapting Arthurian lit, I have no problem lifting Broceliande from its more usual location on the continent and dropping it into Scotland, but I have no idea if superimposing a place-name more associated with the continent – albeit a Celtic place-name – would be offensive to present-day Scots somehow? idk, maybe @FairyGodfeather could answer that question?

I have a short list of things I want to include in the enchanted forest, but I’m open to suggestions! Right now there’s already a pond/fountain sort of thing that plays a major role, and a few specific magical creatures that I definitely plan to use. But there’s also a big chunk of the outline that essentially says, “random enchanted forest stuff happens here.” So if anyone has any favorite random enchanted forest stuff, especially if if comes from Arthurian tradition, I’d love to hear it! (obviously with the caveat that some things won’t work with the overall plot, and I can’t do everything.)

Part 4 did change, massively. I decided that having Arthur get kidnapped so soon after part 2 would feel repetitive, since Guen already had a chance to rescue him once (though an Arthur constantly in need of rescuing could be humorous, I guess). I also decided that I was going to do something with the grail after all, which changed a lot of things in the master plan. Also, people were asking to visit Avalon, which I didn’t have a specific plan for. So now part 4 is going to be on Avalon, with the grail, and Elaine, and child-Mordred, and probably an appearance from baby Percival and child-Lamorak – though everything is subject to change, of course!

And yes, Lancelot’s motivations for marrying Elaine have become more ambiguous, so I took out the reference to him being unwilling. As for Pellinore and Lot, they’ll both be around in part 3, but the conflict in the later parts will be between the succeeding generations of their families. Guen could indeed end up feeling torn between the two sides, depending on how she feels about the various people involved. (In case you’re wondering, the current plan is for Elaine to be the daughter of Pellinore’s brother Pelles, while Percival and Lamorak are her much younger cousins, sons of Pellinore. Percival and Galahad will therefore be first cousins once removed, but only a year apart in age. They’ll also be about the same age as Guenevere’s child, if she has one.)

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Enchanted forest stuff?

If you wish, you could have something for just the fun of it…maybe Guen and Morgana could go skinny-dipping, and a mischievous fairy stole their clothes.

Heh, and I promise not to push a visit with a unicorn (even if the Last Unicorn is one of my favorite movies…)

Perhaps Guen could come across a ruin, or desolate place, perhaps from an elder time (perhaps it was a conflict between a Tuatha de Danaan and Fomorian…)

@jeantown

OH WOW THE MORDRED THING HAPPENS SO EARLY? For some reason I was sure it was going to be like, the last thing that happened considering how emotionally heavy that is. Wowwwwwww that’s going to be something to read.

Awwww, yeah, I remember thinking how sweet that drinking scene was considering what will become of them later. Poor babies.

And ooooh, for forest ideas…well, I do love the rhyming tree from DA:O. Talking trees or fauna are the best.

But my FAVORITE forest trope is by FAR Psychological Torment Zone. Not necessarily for the whole trip, but I love like, prophetic visions (like another Mordred vision or something) or creepy stuff or anything that puts the characters off their game psychologically or is just creepy. “I stg, it smells like my mother’s perfume around here or something…” “I could’ve SWORN I saw someone move behind the trees!” “Was that children’s laughter?” That kind of jazz. The kind of weird magic stuff. I don’t know if you’re going for something more light-hearted than that, though.

Concerning Arthurian Tradition though- I was looking up Guenevere’s mom a while back, and the only time in old writing she gets anything (The Awntyrs off Arthure), she appears in a vision in Inglewood Forest to Guinevere to warn her about the dangers of the life she’s leading. (she also tells Guinevere about how she got around. Thanks, Mrs. Guinevere. Don’t tell your kid you love her or anything, don’t give her a message to give to her dad, tell her about how hot and rich you were and about your boytoys, lol.)

Another thing from Inglewood forest is Dame Ragnelle, where Arthur met her during that loathy lady story. Inglewood forest was considering super haunted, from what I can remember. That’s about all the Arthurian forest stuff I can remember off the top of my head.

Edit: There is also a story where King Arthur fights a really ferocious boar in Inglewood Forest and other stuff I can’t remember happens.

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Enchanted forest ideas… hmm… Midsummer Night’s Dream? I know it has nothing to do with Arthurian legend, but I just love that play!

Edit: I found inspiration for the enchanted forest: http://blogs.disney.com/oh-my-disney/2013/08/08/we-clearly-need-to-visit-the-woods-more/

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I’m most hyped up about Mordred eventually appearing in the game, I really look forward to how he’s imagined out in this version of the Arthurian legends.

Visiting Avalon would be really cool, it must be a magical place of some sort.

There’s also the Druid People and it would be quite interesting to get to know and interact with them.

And is it just me but I am loving the Guen Doppelgangers… you can only converse with a few of them briefly but it was really thought provoking… all those different versions and what could have been, along with actually speaking to a double of yourself, its fascinating.

Omg so exciting @jeantown Avalon and child Mordred in part four. I cant wait! :grinning::grin: (well at least i must wait​:joy:) And reconciling Arthur and Morgana in the forest will not happen, because my Evil Guvenere have plans about Arthur and Morgana being enemies. She would probably take Arthur and Lancelot with her to the forest or maybe (meligaunt) if there will be that option because if so Lance wont come. :smiling_imp:

Also sins Mordred is born before the forest part (i have an idea) that Guenevere If she takes Arthur with her, plainly ignores him and makes cutting remarks here and there while (if optional) Meligaunt snikers in the bakground and just hangs with Guenevere and she with him at every chance they have while Arthur is ignored. Sry im so mean :sweat_smile:

@Lys ::takes notes:: All of those sound interesting! You know, I hadn’t thought of including a unicorn, but if there was ever going to be one in the whole series, the enchanted forest would be the place for it to appear… (we’ll see). And ruins/traces of an ancient conflict would also be very cool. Thanks for the ideas! (:

@thesunfloweramazon Yeah, I’m currently planning for Mordred’s conception to happen right at the beginning of part 3. It’s going to be a relatively dark moment in the series, so I figure, just get it done and then have the whole rest of part 3 for everyone to start to work through it (in different possible ways).

And I’d like to have a full range of moods/experiences in the forest, some of them serious and some of them not so much, so I think that talking trees, psychological torment zones, boars, loathly ladies, and perhaps even an appearance from Guen’s mom could theoretically fit in, all depending on the pacing. I had never heard of The Awntyrs off Arthure! Wow. Although I have no idea if Guen’s mom’s ghost could fit in with the intended plot, it would be cool to have her appear. I’ve always felt guilty for giving Guen the Disney princess dead mom treatment, especially since the only reason for it was to be able to start the game with Guen and Morgana alone together!

@Mirabella I love Midsummer Night’s Dream, too. :slight_smile: And I had never thought about the diversity of things that happen in Disney forests!

@Harian You’re not alone in looking forward to Mordred! I just hope I can pull him off in the way I want… same goes for Avalon… At the moment I don’t have any specific plans for druids to appear, but that could always change. They’re around, though their power has waned as the power of Avalon and the Goddess has grown. They will at least play a role in some important backstory in part 3. And I’m glad you like the doppelgangers! They were a fun way of acknowledging how different Guen might be, depending on the reader’s choices, and also a little nod to the “false Guenevere” concept that shows up here and there in Arthurian lit.

@GloriaRose Arthur and Morgana will be very upset with each other in part 3, so your Guen can probably just sit back and let them not reconcile. As for Meligaunt, I did say that the fifth possible companion would be someone who has not yet appeared or been mentioned in the story, so that rules out Meligaunt – sorry! But you should still be able to find plenty of ways to be mean to Arthur if that’s your priority. (:

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