Gender-locking ROs, gender flipping, and importance of gender in relationships

Game Development Writing and Content
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Are you flirting with me lol? :wink: Sorry Like I said to the woman that kiss me In that Lgbtnb party in the college I am not interested and I am not so easy she could invite me to a dinner first.

I am a rp too I prefer play as woman because my main avatar Mara is woman, but I play as boy nb and many other stuff as orcs or cats. What I don’t like is being FORCED to anything like those games that suppose that you have to be in love with X character.And shove in your face HOW MUCH ATTRACT ARE YOU TO X. why have I to be attraxted sexualy to X without known him her or they??? What if my character is Ace. What if I am aro.

People tend to assume everyone has sexual desires and about same. Like how many games tend to assume every one is looking for the boobs of girls…

And about my chase It was a lot of years ago so I am cured of all healthy someone can be after being assault with 12 years after left school bus. Therapy and group of victims helped a lot. Is crazy know how many people had suffered same I was lucky for achieve stop my assaultant. But what is sad is how trans and boys are worse treated by society. A boy suicide in the group because his father didn’t wanted him at home after being raped. Like now he was less boy or making him a sin shame.

I think that translate to many game developers and entitled players ,like I let them have a romance optional why they want more or why I can’t have the character I want why he or she has to be gay…

Also If you want romance a rock you can … There is a hosted where you are an atom of iron.

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89

Honestly, I just don’t like not giving people the romances they want, in part because it’s happened to me so much. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Firstly, when were talking about “gender-locked” here, I’m assuming it’s meant in the way of “character X is always gender Y” as well as “character X is only attracted to gender Y”. If I’m completely off the mark, then don’t mind my ramblings. ^^ (dang you English as second language-ness).

As a general rule, no. Tbh I kind of prefer it sometimes. :slight_smile:
I do find it disappointing when a character my MC has great chemistry with, turns out to be locked due to the gender of the specific MC I’m playing, but I’m not going to complain that a fictional character might have gender preferences, like real people do. If I’m that desparate to romance that specific character, then I’ll rather change the gender of my MC than having the preferences or gender of the character changed.

Absolutely. I’m normally attracted to men, so I might at least look at the male options beforehand, but in the end it all comes down to chemistry and how much I like the character. A good example is Empathy from “Freak: Amidst the Neon Lights” by @Snoe. I was completely sold on her, after I got to interact with her, even though there are (also very interesting) male RO’s available. ^^

For me, in the end, it’s first and foremost personality (which might be obvious from the rest of my post :P). If several RO’s all seem like awesome ones, and has great chemistry with the MC, I will probably start out with the male ones, since that is my IRL preference, but I won’t say they are better.

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91

Gender locker means two things here in COG.
1-that the character gender don’t swap. F example In Heroes rise Black Magic gender swap To meet the requirements of your romance like if you are a gay man BM will always be a male gay.
2- If 1 situation doesn’t apply and npc don’t swap. Character could be gender locked to any gender preference or not.

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For me, I do prefer gender-locked ROs because I don’t feel like the character is as strong when the gender isn’t set and it reminds me a lot of “genderbending,” something that many trans and nonbinary people find to be uncomfortable and borderline (unintentionally) transphobic.

But when a game only has a small number of ROs, then I understand the use of randomizing the character’s gender. It allows for more options for people without having to try and force more characters into the story to make it work.

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93

when will i be able to date a catboi nb

@god when. [quote=“poison_mara, post:88, topic:23002”]
What I don’t like is being FORCED to anything like those games that suppose that you have to be in love with X character.And shove in your face HOW MUCH ATTRACT ARE YOU TO X. why have I to be attraxted sexualy to X without known him her or they??? What if my character is Ace. What if I am aro.
[/quote]

Is truth. Havenstone had to change the introduction of Breden in XOR to account for “aesthetic attraction” as well, which I thought he did brilliantly though I still hate Breden for reasons unknown.

Am I an ass man? A tit man? Let me check my kink list.

… Apparently I am a scar man and occasionally a foot man, rarely a small-tit man and not an ass man at all. Who’d’a thunk.[quote=“RedRoses, post:92, topic:23002”]
when the gender isn’t set and it reminds me a lot of “genderbending,” something that many trans and nonbinary people find to be uncomfortable and borderline (unintentionally) transphobic.
[/quote]

Thiiiiiis! This! This right here! Especially if the character’s gender is randomised, please don’t do that it makes me uncomfortable.

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I however Like The randomized always you could choose quit it or not like in mecha ace you could skip the randomized or not If you don’t like it.

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Personally, I prefer non genderlocked ROs. I think it allows for the maximum freedom in creating an individual narrative. I understand plenty of game authors see their characters as defined people, but I like it when games leave as much as possible up to the player. Otherwise I feel like I’m just reading a book. Which I love to do, but the reason I’m playing a COG instead of working on my Goodreads list is because I want control.

I like how the Lost Heir, Mecha Ace, and Choice of the Deathless did things, in letting you choose character gender or randomizing it. I know it annoys some people but I usually end up with a more diverse experience uncoupled from gender expectations.

For example, in Mecha Ace, it turned out that the two top pilots (MC and the Imperial rival) were women, the deck chief was a woman, the second in command and the nervous new bridge cadet were men. I’m 99% that if this were a typical TV show, the bridge cadet would be female, Asadi would be female and her subplot would imply that women can’t handle command. I just like that it doesn’t have to have those overtones.

I also prefer MC-oriented ROs, incidentally, because otherwise it feels like “hey this content isn’t for you. Go back to character generation and choose something else if you want to read it.” and that frustrates me. But I am probably the minority in both cases.

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96

I don’t commonly write COG, but I did once (it was a trainwreck, don’t ask), and from an author’s perspective I will not give the reader the choice of a character’s gender. I get attached to my characters and they all come alive in my head; just giving the player the option to switch around one of my babies’ genders, haha no, tough luck. So this game had gender-locked ROs for plot reasons; the game was set in the past, where each characters’ gender had a huge impact on how they would’ve been treated by others. Giving the player the option to choose their gender would’ve been a pain to code, essentially–how others treat those characters and their development over the course of the game would have changed. That, and orientation and gender are usually referenced in my writing, and though they don’t define my characters they’re still a part of them.

From a player’s perspective, I know it can be frustrating, as I’ve been frustrated with tons of games before. One of my now-favorite games here (Guenevere), is gender-locked, has 2 heterosexual romances and 1 gay romance, and all the ROs have fixed genders. It frustrated me and I tiptoed around it for a while, because I typically play as male or nonbinary and enjoy the vast options of gay romance that COG offered and nothing else gave me. However, I played it and was truly blown away. Guenevere as well as attempting to make my own game shaped my opinion so much; I tend to prefer gender-locked ROs or gender-locked MCs if their gender/orientation is a factor in the plot or their development.

I do appreciate ROs where you can choose their gender simply because of the option of having a Everyone’s Gay playthrough and my occasional self-indulgence, but I think in the end I’d prefer a game where the characters have set genders and orientations, and those things factor into their development. A character can, of course, be interesting without that, but it just makes a character far more real for me. What’s more human than struggling with your identity, after all?

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97

One approach I haven’t seen mentioned so far is swapping between two different characters to fit the protagonist’s preference. I can’t think of a game off the top of my head that does it for romances, but Dragon Age 2 is a non-romantic example. Without getting into spoilers - Depending on whether your character is a mage or warrior/rogue, the game will give you one of two possible party members. The other still exists in the storyline but can’t be recruited.

In a similar way, a CS game might ask the player whether their MC is attracted to men or women and then have them meet either Alice, the stoic warrior, or Bob, the crafty wizard. Each has their own personality and dialogue, but they fill the same role in the story (e.g. being kidnapped by the villain, saving the MC’s life, whatever).

Downsides might include: making more work for the author; annoying players who really want to romance a male stoic warrior or a female crafty wizard; and/or privileging romantic preference over other factors when deciding which character the player gets to meet. Still, I think it could be enjoyable and add replay value.

On a side note, I slightly dislike using the term “gender-locked” in this context since it isn’t an accurate description of the situation. There’s no female MC in Sabres of Infinity or male Morgana in Guenevere that’s “locked” away from players by the author, like DLC is locked behind a paywall or character classes are locked behind MMO expansions. They don’t exist at all, so it doesn’t make sense to imply that the author is holding them back from us.

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98

Choice of Robots does this. Eiji and Elly. They fill the same narrative space, they perform similar roles, but they’re not identical carbon copies of each other.

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99

Monsters of New Haven High does this as well, with Hunter and Artemis :slight_smile:

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100

There’s something kinda, a little, but not really like this in Awoken the powerful, but untrained lady vs the technomage man ,and Choice of Rebels (I haven’t played this in a while, so I don’t know if it’s still there, but it probably is) the noble lady swordsman vs. The bloodthirsty skinny Helot man .

I do like being given a choice for my companions and Awoken’s system better (assuming XOR hasn’t changed its system for a year or so). NPCs have value other than as romance options. As someone who roleplays as a stoic yet craftey mage myself, it would be better for me to travel with the warrior so we can cover each other’s weaknesses. But, I wouldn’t mind being forced to be with a mage, because mages are the best and I can tell all the young wippersnappees in town that that was the beginning of a beautiful mages guild.

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101

Minor nitpick about choice of rebels - the character who can join you later is not gender locked, regardless of whether you get the noble or helot. If you set Breden as female, they are always male, or vice versa.

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103

Just borrowing your comment about outright gay npcs not just Bi. One of the edits @Fiogan suggested for Unnatural was to allow players to choose whether it was Craig or Sarah who was your friend turned bully. Now Craig and Sarah are currently the only outright gay character in season one. I originally intended to keep them Gay regardless of who you pick so if a male MC picks Sarah she will still be gay likewise a female MC wouldn’t be able to romance Craig. I was starting to think maybe make them bi but I have doubts that is the right choice as there sexuality is one of the reasons they bullied the player and is part of their story arc. So thank you for giving me some more food for thought about it.

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104

I would keep them as is, Ashley (and I assume there is probably a male counterpart) is straight, Denise :heart_eyes: and Scarlet were bi, so it only seemed right to have canon gay option too

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105

Dragon Age Inquisition handles it best. You can try to express interest in whoever, but if you’re not their preference then they’ll eventually clue you in. If you’re manipulating every single aspect of an NPC as you play, then they’re only going to be an interesting character in your personal imagination. At the very least you have to have key aspects of their personality that remain unchanged.

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106

Mass Effect Andromeda is doing something similar to Dragon Age 2 by having the male and female player characters be 2 separate siblings, either of which still exists after you create your person

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107

I been away for too long. Finally returned once again. :slight_smile: Despite phone death and loosing every game, trying to recover them all through Steam instead. At least all my saves are saved. :smiley: I will have to consider that idea when I start getting back to what I was doing.

I will start progressing again, and reason I chose this for my first entry is cause this topic is important to me. I will have NPCs that are either, gay, lesbian, asexual, nonsexual, bisexual and other forms. Already been putting them into Hero System Game me and roommate ST share together. I brought in a first character into this world that does change from male to female and back due to certain factors that come into play for him or her. We made a little joke that it seemed like straight romances in our world seemed almost rare instead of how the real world is. They are who they are, there are tons of straights we just don’t really explore too much. Even though she prefers men, she explores all sexuality ideas in writing.

Focusing on this idea, romanced types would be nice to have open and adjustable, though it diminishes them slightly, but not fully if they are written well. As there should be set sexuality for many others, and not all straight either. I am inclined to make ROs specific to a sexuality as well, done several that were set. Their degrees of why they are this way or that way vary to a minor degree up to extreme degrees of why they are down this path instead. As it would be for lots of people in real life.

I personally only like lesbian relationships, I hate straight relationships, and I am not interested in any type of relationship except friends with no benefit types. RO for stories I see when are two men, I don’t mind, I will continue reading. However when straight, I usually end up loosing interest completely.

So, when I consider factors, regardless of my own ideas or thoughts, I have to keep in mind of what everyone else wishes for their own and what they want and what they want to see. Two men for too many people I know personally, an idea of an interrupt to put in. o Turn down this path. As a trigger for those that may not be interested in seen what is about to happen. Which could work for other situations as well. Its an idea I was thinking upon anyways. It would add a bit more writing and time to work those ideas into the story.

Now I want to erase most of this. :stuck_out_tongue: But sending it out to the world anyways. :slight_smile:

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108

You know, I’ve been musing on this (obviously for some days, at this point) because I completely agree, good non-straight representation is vital. I also really wanted to allow for gender-swapping NPCs in a particular WiP of mine, though, and I was trying to find my way to a satisfactory answer.

Then it occurred to me that the two didn’t have to be mutually exclusive. This is a messy way to code it, but suppose I did something like this:


*if ((mc_nominative != "he") and (mc_nominative != "she"))
    *if ((npc1_nominative != "he") and (npc1_nominative != "she"))
        *goto romance_is_a_yes
    *else
        *goto romance_is_a_no
*elseif (mc_nominative = "she")
    *if (npc1_nominative = "she")
        *goto romance_is_a_yes
    *else
        *goto romance_is_a_no
*else
    *if (npc1_nominative = "he")
        *goto romance_is_a_yes
    *else
        *goto romance_is_a_no
*label romance_is_a_yes
*set romance_npc1 true
"I've definitely noticed you, too…for a long time now," ${npc_nominative} says. "I think our friendship could be something more. Maybe a lot more."
*goto end
*label romance_is_a_no
"Sorry," ${npc1_nominative} says, "but you're just not my type. I'm only interested in ${npc1_gender}. But I'd still like to be friends," ${npc1_nominative} adds.
*goto end
*label end

Then I can include specific representation for homosexual characters in every play through. Of course, I wouldn’t be able to control whether those characters were lesbian, gay, or nonbinary-with-nonbinary-only—which, do we have a word for that yet? We should.

This solution makes me a lot more at peace with the idea of allowing players to choose different genders for NPCs. I’d be curious as to what people think, though!

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