Man, don’t remember me what they did to Stannis. One of the best characters in the book, destroyed by the show.
Have you seen the scene with arya talking with the westerlander soldiers? They only have single skinny rabbit, and arya comments that they dont have enough. the soldiers themselves arent willing and eager to fight either. They’ve been fighting the starks and stannis from the start of the show. And the riverlands have been torn apart by conflict so they’re certainly not feeding shit. to top it all off, house lannister is drowning in debt. Cersei couldn’t have as much soldiers and the combined army of the north and the vale, who barely fought at all yet. And dany still has her army of unsullied and a massive horde of dothraki. We’re not even talking about dorne and the reach. There’s no fucking way in hell Cersei has any of that shit you credited her with
Does she? I’m pretty sure the Tyrell forces outnumbered them, which was why Renly pursued that alliance. IIRC, they had the largest army prior to the war, and haven’t been part of any battles except for the Blackwater, so they have sustained very few losses. They may be shaken after the deaths of most of House Tyrell, but Olenna is still out there plotting with Dorne.
The Riverlands have also had everyone’s armies tramping through the fields, fighting battles and pressing the smallfolk into service. The Reach is further from the fighting and far enough south that they can probably still grow food for a while. It’s supposed to be one of the most fertile farmlands in the seven kingdoms, and Cersei destroyed the alliance that gave her access to it. Remember how Margaery got so popular by distributing food to the masses? It was because the Tyrells provided the grain that the Lannisters no longer could.
Where are they bringing it in from? Right now Cersei needs to worry about how she’s going to feed the capital, and worry about about Dragonstone later.
I just meant the occasional flyby to dracarys any ships in the area. Not maintaining her own naval blockade.
I mean, you have a point. In the books, they do lay seige to Dragonstone and occupy it back when they were still fighting Stannis, before Dany ever thought of coming over to Westeros. In the show timeline, it just seems too late for them to try to prepare to occupy and defend it from Dany. As you said, it has been vulnerable to dragons before, and Dany has three.
The North has ripped itself to shreds worse than any other region. First the North fought Joffrey and Tywin’s troops, then the cream of the northern knights were butchered by the Freys along with Rob Stark, Winterfell itself was sacked by Theon Greyjoy, and then there was a civil war in the North as Roose and his bastard Ramsay fought the loyalists and flayed their nobles. Then after the Boltons won, Jon returned from the Wall to fight another battle with Ramsay that left giant piles of dead Northerners on both sides. On top of that, despite its size, the North has always been one of the least populated regions due to its cold weather. House Lannister’s Westerlands, the Crownlands, and the Stormlands have had it easy in comparison.
The Vale’s forces have barely been scratched, but the Vale is an even more thinly populated province.
It’s true that the Riverlands have had a rough time of it since many of their nobles have been killed for siding with the Starks, and bandits (or poorly paid/supplied soldiers gone bandit) appear to have taken advantage of the power vacuum and moved in, making life a living hell for the peasantry. The Lannisters have had effective control of the the Riverlands for awhile now; they really should have done more to ensure the harvests were brought in during Tommen’s reign.
Kal Drogo had a horde of Dothraki, what Dani has now seems much smaller. She has what? 5k? Maybe 10k troops total at most that have crossed the sea with her?
Highgarden is the richest of the provinces now that the Lannister gold mines have run dry, and up until the imprisonment of Loras and Margaery, it was loaning large sums of money to King Tomenn. The loss of Highgarden as an ally was a huge blunder on Cersei’s part. Highgarden also has the biggest navy (or at least it did in the books) and its army hasn’t been scratched. Does its army have competent military leadership however? Does it have someone who is a match for Jamie? If it does then Cersei is in deep trouble even without Dani on her doorstep.
Dorne is almost like a different country already, albeit a far smaller, hotter, dryer, more insular and less wealthy one. With its legitimate ruler so recently assassinated by an usurper, the will of its people to fight outside of Dorne’s borders for Ellaria is open to question.
It implied in the show she has a horde bigger than her husband
That’s not the impression I got, but it’s certainly possible I missed (or have forgotten) something from last season. So what gave/gives you the impression that Dani’s horde is bigger?
Not true. the vale is not a weak region at all. Not as powerful as the westerlands but untoched by famine, debt and war and combined with the north they pose as a serious threat to Cersei. all cersei has are the weakened westerlands and the crownlands which are the weakest region out of them all by far. Dany united a whole fucking bunch of khalasars and still has her unsullied army which is formidable, even if they were small. Add 3 dragons and she could conquer all of westeros
anyway im just gonna stop participating in this discussion aint like any of us know much, just pitting our impressions and headcanons against eachother
I didn’t say the Vale was weak. I said that it was one of the most thinly populated provinces. It’s troops are among the best, having served under King Robert’s highly experienced Hand, John Arryn, Lord of the Vale and Warden of the East, They don’t have the population to field a military force of the same size as some of the other provinces however.
True. Of course I’d argue that the Westerlands were also untouched by the first two (it’s the Crown that took on the debt, not the Lord of the Westerlands) and only very lightly touched by the third (Rob never got past the northern edge of the Westerlands before his assassination), and has had more than enough time to recover since.
The Vale and the North combined probably have the most skilled and experienced troops, but Cersei can certainly field more, even if they may not be quite the same caliber. The problem for the Northern forces however is that they dare not throw everything they have at Cersei. They’ve got White Walkers just waiting for an opportunity to either break through the wall, or march around it on frozen ice covered seas. In fact, Sandor’s vision in s7e1 appears to imply the latter.
The Westerlands aren’t appreciably weakened, and they started out far more heavily populated and economically stronger than either the Vale or the North. They also have had the benefit of some of the best military leadership. Could the united forces of the Vale and the North defeat Jamie Lannister’s troops? Possibly, but it wouldn’t be either quick or easy, and the White Walkers would likely kill everyone before a winner could be determined. Could Dani single-handedly defeat Jamie’s troops with just her unsullied and dothraki? I doubt it. OTOH, if everyone (Dani, Highgarden, Dorne, the North, and the Vale) dogpiles Cersei, then she’s a gonner, and it’s increasingly looking like that’s going to be exactly what happens if Euron doesn’t knock out or at least tie up some of her opponents.
And I completely agree that the dragons make it much much easier for her to conquer all of westeros, assuming she can control them.
This discussion has motivated me to look for the ep from last season where they were calculating how many ships Dani would need to get her army to Westeros. I vaguely recall that the size of her force was discussed in that context. I’ll chime in on that point once I’ve found it if someone else doesn’t chime in on it first.
only thing sandor’s visions told me is that cleganebowl is FUCKING CONFRIROMED GET HYPE
I’m as hopeful that we’ll see the cleganebowl as the next fan, but it’s a little too early to say that Sandor is seeing his brother instead of a real mountain in his vision.
I have to agree with @wonderfulcarpet .
For one, House Lannisters is surrounded with few allies and few supply sources. Now that the Tyrells cut off their grain supply, one thing is certain that Lannisters will have limited food supply. True, they might be able store some before but it will get depleted. If you cannot feed your army, how would they fight for you? They have already undergone major battles, for sure their resources were depleting.
I do grant that this is a problem in need of a solution if the Lannister’s are to successfully defend their grip on the Iron Throne. I expect they’ll do what armies have often done in the past, take it from others so that at least the soldiers are fed. That probably means a lot of peasants will go hungry in the interim, and will likely lead to Lannister raids or even an offensive into the Reach as some here have already suggested is in the offing.
She killed why was it three or four Khals. And took their horde. I think that moment she may have United the them or least the majority of them.
Actually I just had a thought, I’d completely fogotten the Euron has access to that dragon horn thing to try and take control of the dragons. With that, there’s a good chance he will go after Dani to return to Cercei with a dragon under his control don’t you think?
That reminds me of this deleted scene from last season. It is somewhat touching but Mace stays true to character.
Damn it @P_Tigras, we’ve been overlooking this shit for years. When are we gonna hold their feet to the fire?
Dragonstone has been empty for the last 2 years, while Cersei still had the Tyrells on her side. This blunder is indefensible (unless you try to pull the showrunners card).
The ironborn sailed right past it in order to get to King’s Landing! And it was empty when they did it! Taking it right then would have been a better gift than whatever Euron’s going to do.
Would that scene have been different if Ed Sheeran wasn’t in it? M. Williams is a fan.
She also has the Stormlands, unless she did nothing to take them back once Stannis died.
Also makes you wonder how Euron built that many ships in a small amount of time. If I remember correctly Theon and Yara took almost half the ships with them.
Does he have that in the show?
Anyways, @P_Tigras, in stark contrast to last season Lady Sandra actually provided some decent advise this time, even if she (willingly or unwillingly) undermined Jon’s leadership.
And what do you think about Lyanna Mormont giving some lip to Lord Glover? After her speech (not needing permission to defend the North and all that), do you think she’ll get right in the thick of battle?
I thought he did, but I’ve read the books so I could be mixing the two up
He doesn’t make any mention of it in the Kingsmoot.
That is so weird, I can see the scene with the horn in it. Imagination is a wonderful thing isn’t it
Anyway, so maybe that’s not what he’s up to, or maybe he has it and hasn’t told anyone about it yet, although I admit that’s less likely given the recent power struggles. He’d probably lay that card on the table at the Kingsmoot.
But how is Cersei staying in charge in the first place? She murdered the entire government in the middle of some kind of fundamentalist revolution, and doesn’t even try to hide it.
How have the Lannisters not been lynched or run out of the capital by rioting mobs?