Game of Thrones TV SHOW (spoilers)


#431

My favorite character in the books is Arya, while on the show it's Tyrion.

I was a bit disappointed with how the show cut out all of Arya's warging, both into her Dire Wolf Nymeria who terrorized the Freys and small groups of Lannister troops at night in the Riverlands with her giant pack(army) of wolves, and also while she was still blind, into the cats of Braavos, enabling her to borrow their eyes so she could see. They also cut out her stint as an actress and reduced her development to a crawl until the last season when it was suddenly rushed forward.

I liked book Tyrion a lot, but Peter Dinklage's portrayal of Tyrion on the show has really stood out, plus he tends to get a lot of the shows most memorable lines.


#432

The new season 7 is here. Spoilers from the 1st ep and from the trailer for the 2nd ep follow.

The initial set up is interesting. Currently we have two of the seven kingdoms, the North and the Vale/Eyrie allied under Jon Snow who has zero interest in the Iron Throne and only desires to unify Westeros to stop the White Walkers. The Vale’s alliance with the North is also questionable as long as Littlefinger calls the shots in the Vale. Littlefinger will always do what’s best for Littlefinger, although Littlefinger’s obsession with Sansa along with her contempt for him, gives her a handle on him that she can use to the North’s advantage, assuming she and John stay united. And right now that seems like a fair assumption. After the way Littlefinger gave her to Ramsey Bolton, I can’t imagine her ever trusting Littlefinger again. John may be a little naive in Sansa’s eyes, but he’s never betrayed her and she knows he never will.

There’s Cersei who after her son’s suicide now runs the crownlands along with two and a half of the old seven kingdoms (The Rock/Westerlands, The Stormlands, and The Rivers (Riverlands) part of the old Kingdom of the Isles and the Rivers). Badboy Euron Greyjoy now holds the Isles (Iron Isles) part of the old Kingdom of the Isles and the Rivers, and is seeking to ally with Cersei. Both of these power-mad individuals have come unhinged. This is a power-couple made in hell.

Then there’s Dani Targaryen’s invading army of unsullied that has landed on Dragonstone Isle, and the final two of the old seven kingdoms, the rebellious southern provinces of Dorne under Ellaria Sand and the Reach under Olenna Tyrell. The trailer for ep 2 shows them all meeting in Dani’s new map/chess room on Dragonstone Isle. Both Sand and Tyrell are enemies of Cersei, Sand became Cersei’s enemy by her own choice when she murdered Cersei’s adolescent daughter with a poisoned kiss, and Tyrell by Cersei’s choice after Cersei’s murder of Mace, Loras and Margery Tyrell when she blew up the Sept of Balor. They are thus both likely to ally with Dani, although I wouldn’t be surprised if Ellaria demanded independence in return for her assistance.

My prediction (and hope because I can’t stand the Sand Snakes) is that Euron will prove himself to Cersei by going after Ellaria since Ellaria murdered Cersei’s daughter, and her desert province of Dorne has the weakest navy and the most vulnerable ports among the rebellious provinces. Jon will also very likely throw his support behind Dani in return for dragonglass from Dragonstone Isle, and for her support (including her dragons) against the White Walkers.


Note: The map shows nine separate geographic territories instead of seven. The Crownlands (area around King’s Landing) used to be a contested territory and was not one of the original seven kingdoms of Westeros, while the Iron Isles and the Riverlands were united into a short-lived single kingdom at the time “The Seven Kingdoms” was coined.


#433

You forgot about Iron Fist.


#434

LOL. Fixed. I actually had to look up Iron Fist to figure out that you meant Loras. Clearly I need to do some catching up on my Marvel…


#435

If the reviews for Iron Fist show are true, you’re not missing anything. I guess that shows how forgettable Loras was even though he was the reason everyone was in the Sept in the first place.


#436

There are some third and fourth tier characters like his grandmother who are played by amazingly good actors and actresses. Unfortunately, he wasn’t one of them. While I’m sad that Margaery has been killed off, I’m glad that Olynna is still around. Diana Rigg is an amazing actress. Mace and Loras I never much cared about.


#437

Cersei either kill her children and be killed, or both actually. Kings Landing might be burn to the ground?

A lot of people dying.


#438

What’s weird, P_Tigras, is that while I see the distinctions you’re making, the plot-threads/characters make me wonder how they’re going to handle this.

For example, now that the Freys are dead–as well as the Tullys–there aren’t any more houses or characters from the Riverlands that we know. We haven’t even seen any such Houses.

Same with the Stormlands. With the Baratheons all dead, there are no houses or characters from the Stormlands.

The Crownlands have…the Stokeworths?

I mean, admittedly, Highgarden, Dorne, and the Westerlands are depopulated: who do we know other than Oleanna, the Lannisters, and the Martells?

At least in the Vail we’ve seen various knights, and of course the North has about a dozen houses that we’re familiar with. (Two of which were resurrected last night.)

So, when you divide things up by regions, it seems funny to me, because I divide it up more by characters/factions that we’ve actually seen, if you follow me. Sure, there’s nothing to stop the writers from introducing a new character/house, but it wouldn’t be a Warden-level house, because we know all those. It has to be a lower house coming up in the world, and with only 13 episodes left in the series, it’s going to be hard to tell some sort of story about such a house. The Boltons were the last attempt to do so, and that’s now done.

(And, don’t forget, Cersei is bankrupt, and on the shitlist of Braavos.)


#439

I just keep thinking that the characters, more so than the plot, make the show. I’m cool with even a slow episode, because I watch for the awesome acting and characters more than any great concern about who ends up on the throne (if anyone).

Little scenes like the Hound burying the father and daughter he doomed to death, or Arya finding out that some Lannister troops are just normal people (and fairly friendly at that) anchor my enjoyment of the show. Daeny striding over the beach or the Walkers trudging (forever?) through the snow are very cool, but without humanizing elements, not as gripping.

Characters like Ser Davos, who is played by a downright brilliant actor, would steal the show on almost any other show. Same for people like the Hound, Jamie, Brienne, etc.

I didn’t include Dinklage because I think he DOES steal the show, to the extent one can.


#440

Mostly I was trying to get into Jamie’s head regarding his comments in s7e1 that Cersei is Queen of three of the seven kingdoms at most, and that she is in dire need of allies. And the books do have a very lengthy listing of houses that are mostly absent from the show. Nevertheless just because they aren’t mentioned on the show doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I expect there is going to be a bit of abstraction as unnamed lords and ladies lead forces from areas under the control of “name” characters like Cersei and Jamie. Of course troop numbers and the nobles who lead them matter less and less as Dani’s dragons grow larger and larger…

As for Warden level houses, there are only four, and three (Stark, Arryn & Tyrell) are currently in “rebellion” against the fourth (Lannister).

I largely agree. GoT has an incredibly strong cast of characters (minus what’s left of Dorne) who make the show a joy to watch.


#441

Never cared much about Mace “The Ace” Tyrell? Was it his feathered helm?

Edmure Tully had a couple of scenes last season and his infant son is still alive if what Jaime said was true. House Baelish is now in control of the Riverlands so there’s some room to do something with that area.

The Baratheons are not all dead, at least not the bloodline. Davos freed Gendry a couple of seasons ago.

From Highgarden/Reach we know the Tarlys. From Dorne they could (re)introduce the Daynes? We’ve already seen (probably) the most famous member of that House so it wouldn’t be completely from nowhere. And from the Westernlands… House Clegane?

What can they do? Stannis is presumably dead and Daenerys doesn’t need them to conquer Westeros.

The Hound’s scenes were pretty good. I enjoyed his interactions with Thoros.

That’s basically her entire arc throughout seasons 1-3. I’m guessing you weren’t a fan of the last shot from season 6?

You gotta justify that budget somehow. Dragons alone can’t do it. :laughing:

Oh, how could we ever forget this immortal line of dialogue?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sggmx8vysoc


#442

For one, Arya is a force to be reckon with. She practically killed almost all the House Frey on her own. She seem to be on her way to King’s Landing but from the other shots I’ve seen, she looks like going to Winterfell. I would like to see the remaining Starks to be reunited. It seems Jon and Sansa weren’t aware that Bran was still alive. :grin:

I’m a bit moved with the Hound scene though. It was really good. As for Dany, all in my mind was ‘Finally after six seasons, she finally arrived in Westeros.’


#443

Is it just me or did Cersei just let Daenerys just take Dragonstone? Everybody knew she was coming right?


#444

Oh, how could we ever forget this immortal line of dialogue?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sggmx8vysoc
[/quote]

Sad to say, but that was actually one of Tienne’s better lines, with Tienne generally being the best of a bad lot. Obarra on the other hand is the worst. Nym got the fewest lines so it’s hard to compare her with Tienne, but Obara’s monologues used to make me cringe, and all three of them looked very awkward while holding their weapons. Contrast that with Briene who is obviously much more comfortable with her blade and isn’t acting outside of her range.

Arya has historically been my favorite character in the series, but her brokenness increasingly saddens and concerns me. Whereas Sandor seems to be on an upward trajectory, hers appears to be heading downward…

Sssshhhhhhh… :wink:

I suspect the showrunners are burned out and desire to move on to new projects. A battle for Dragonstone might well have required an 8th episode this season, and it was just easier to pretend that nobody was home.


#445

You have a point. :frowning_face: That’s why I would like her to head toward Winterfell instead… It quite sad to see Arya in her revenge rampage. ^^; But I do hope she will return to her family first, she needs her family.


#446

Everyone I watch the show with loves the Arya murder scenes, and they make me unspeakably sad. Everyone else sees a bad-ass assassin getting justice for her family, and I’m seeing a child soldier, lost and alone, who doesn’t know about her living siblings up north.

But that’s why I really liked the scene with the Lannister soldiers. She sized them up, checked where the weapons were and when we were expecting her to kill them, they treated her like a guest, and she accepted. It’s a sign that she can let go of her need for vengeance.

Was this covered by the scene where Jaime tells Cersei they need to focus on Highgarden and secure their food supply? If not, they should have thrown in a line where Cersei wants to send troops to Dragonstone instead and Jaime vetos it.


#447

You’ve got to wonder if Cersei even has the means to stop her that far from King’s Landing at this point. She’s pretty low on allies, and if she moves a large chunk of her forces out to dragonstone, it’s quite possible one of her other enemies would take advantage of it. She’s probably counting on the ironborn to take care of it for her is my guess. But he may not go after her, he never said what he’d specifically do after all.


#448

Was this covered by the scene where Jaime tells Cersei they need to focus on Highgarden and secure their food supply? If not, they should have thrown in a line where Cersei wants to send troops to Dragonstone instead and Jaime vetos it.
[/quote]

See my answer to @Jacic below.

Dragonstone commands the entrance into Blackwater Bay offering an excellent deepwater port and an immense fortification from which the capital of King’s Landing itself can be assaulted or blockaded. Leaving it to Dani not only invites her to shutdown all sea commerce to the capital and the rest of the crownlands, but also makes it virtually impossible to kick her off of Westeros given the difficulty of sieging that particular fortification. So it was beyond stupid to let her have it without a fight, but this is television… I expect that in the books she will be forced to unleash her dragons in order to take it from whoever holds it, assuming the White Walkers are still bottled up in the North.


#449

I don’t disagree that they are giving her a powerful position, but their troops are depleted and they don’t even have a secure food supply. Assuming they could have reached it before Dany (traveling at the speed of plot), how would they hold it? Dragonstone has no native food supply and Dany would be free to burn any approaching supply ships. I think Cersei is hoping Euron is able to keep Dany busy while they lock down Highgarden, at which point they can think about next steps.

Not that I think D&D care a whit about logistics after Yara/Asha sailed from the Iron Islands to the Dreadfort in a day.

I still think Team Lannister is stupid for trying to mount a resistance when for all they know they are lining up for Field of Fire Part 2. They don’t know Dany has shaky control of her lizards. Personally I’d be tripping over my shoelaces in my haste to bend the knee and avoid becoming a crispy snack.


#450

Well that’s the thing. Everybody except Cersei, Euron and the White Walkers will likely bend the knee to Dani at some point, assuming they’re still alive to do so. And both Cersei and Euron are mad…