Game of Thrones TV SHOW (spoilers)


#410

@Personaddict07 There was a great deal of in-breeding going on among the Targaryens and that helped maintain their silver-gold (platinum blonde) hair and purple eyes. For example, Dany's parents Aerys and Rhaelle were also full brother and sister.

@Lotus: I wouldn't be surprised if Tyrion turned out to be a Targaryen. "The Dragon has three heads" as the saying goes, and who better to be the third head on the show than Tyrion?


#411

Pretty much this. Especially given the Mad King's infatuation with Tyrion's mother, and so on.

Speaking of Mad Kings- we now have a Mad Queen who actually played the Mad King's old trump card. I'm really curious to see how Jaime responds. I personally hope he kills Cersei- but then, I'm a fan of symmetry in storytelling- the Kingslayer doing his duty and killing Cersei, thus also becoming the Queenslayer.

It'll also be interesting to see how the loyalty of the little birds plays out.


#412

Many people claim, myself included, that Tywin even tried to kill Tyrion while he was in the womb, with poison. With a small dose so that it would kill him without harming Joanna...But it didn't kill him and it caused his dwarfism, and it also weakened Joanna till the point where she died giving birth.


#413

Sure, Tyrion can be the third head (Personally I think it’s Bran), but it would undermine the poetic nature of Tywin and Tyrion’s relationship. We’re beat over the head with the knowledge that Tyrion is Tywin’s true son mentally, and the only one of Tywin’s children who could match Tywin in wits.It doesn’t seem like GRRM to bring up how Tyrion is just like his father only to reveal that Tywin isn’t his father at all.

Tywin wouldn’t risk that, even for a bastard. He loved Joanna more than anything else, and part of his hatred for Tyrion came from the fact that he came into the world while killing his mother. If Tywin had poisoned Joanna he wouldn’t have hated Tyrion, he would have hated himself, because he would have known he’d been responsible for the death of the love of his life.

Edit: Here is a video explaining the possibility, and the likelihood of Tyrion being Aerys’ son.


#414

Almost definitely Jon, in my opinion.

The "stone dragon" Jon awakens could actually be himself, as a "dragon" often refers symbolically to a Targaryan.

The Night´s Watch was definitely involved in defeating the Others last time. The sacrifice is the vows the men of the Night´s Watch all make. The vows themselves, "I am the sword in the darkness ... the fire that burns against the cold ... the light that brings the dawn ...", neatly fit the idea of Lightbringer.

Mel tries to see Azoi Ahai in her fire, and sees "only snow". Jon has both Stark and Targaryan, ice and fire, within him. He´s the balance.

He also fits the monomythmic hero mold, and is basically GRRM´s most traditional heroic character. Dany is a red herring, I think.

I think Sansa and Jon may get together, eventually. There are tons of parallels within their respective stories, and the fact that they never really interact with each other in the story could be setting up the romance to be less squicky later. Marriage between cousins isn´t unusual with the Starks, and uh..Sansa is a redhead, while Jon is brave and chivalrous, qualities she always wanted in a husband.

Arya could be another red herring in this regard.

I´m not saying this is likely btw (especially not in the show), but it is possible that GRRM shifted the love triangle from one Stark kid to another.

Agreed.

I see Tyrion as the heart of the story, not necessarily a major player, because he connects with so many of the major characters (Jon, Dany, Bran, Sansa) and because he can emphasize with them all. Lowborn and highborn, fortunate and unfortunate, alike. He´s been in all of those positions himself.

He has also connected with the dragons of the story, Jon and Dany. Which his life being spared by Dany´s dragons could be a nod towards.

Cersei and Jaime being the Mad King´s children would make more sense, as neither were named like Tywin or his father Tytos, despite being his firstborns. Tyrion, however, was given that "Ty" in his name and possesses many of his father´s characteristics, while Cersei and Joffrey are a little..mad.


#415

I think is a bit easier to see a romance betwen Arya and Jon (specially in the books), cuz Jon really dosen’t think that much about Sansa and she is kind of the oposite of what Jon seems to like (amazonian women).

And in other things I think that Dany is actually going to be the bad guy.


#416

No, but he sticks up for her right to inherit Winterfell in front of Stannis, while Sansa bases her character, Alayne Stone (her fake identity in the Vale) on him, thinking of him as brave. It sets them up as being positively inclined towards to each other, while still maintaining Arya and Dany´s red herring status.

This may be another subversion of sorts. Jon starts off liking amazonian women, and ends up with the opposite (or so it may seem, as Sansa may outgrow that damsel status soon). Sansa starts off liking Princes and knights in shining armour, and ends up with a bastard (or so it may seem, as Jon may turn out to be a Prince).

Again, I find their pairing unlikely because of the squick factor, but honestly, I´d prefer it to a Jon-Dany marriage.


#417

That’s true, but my point remains Sansa is the oposite of what Jon likes in women, he dosen’t like damsels he like’s action girls like Ygritte and Val.

Also it makes more sense to set up the conection betwen two caracters from the beggining separate them for years, constantly remembering the time they spend togeter and wishing to reunite again.
Oposed to having two caracters that didn’t liked each other, almost never interact to sudendli love each other in the last two books(seasons).
In my opinion if that happens that would be a waist of build up for Jon and Arya.


#418

When have GRRM cared about the “squick factor”?
I mean Incest, Castration, Mutilation, and killing, of kids. That is some heavy stuf.
He is all about breaking tabbos and expectations.

Me too, but seems like Dany is been set up to become like the mad king.


#419

I´m not really talking about them suddenly falling in love. I´m talking about marriage. Which is based on mutual respect that more often than not precedes “love”. Think Catelyn and Ned.

The build-up for Arya wouldn´t be a waste. It would be a build-up to a genuinely heartwarming reunion between them as close siblings (in spirit, at least). Different kind of love.

GRRM makes sense through clues scattered throughout the story (like for Sansa and Jon) and plants red herrings (like Arya, perhaps, in this regard) like crazy, because ultimately, he is a mystery writer.

I was referring less to the books here and more to the show. I don´t think D&D would like the idea of pairing Sansa and Jon, mainly because of their audience. And they love Dany.

With the books, yes, that is one more reason to suspect GRRM might do this. He showed with the original love triangle that he wasn´t afraid of the squick factor.


#420

I wanted to ask, what’s up with them?

But she is already (happily?) married to tyrion and he’s coming back. (and I think that they would make a good couple)

you are totally right here they most likely won’t do Jon/Sansa or Jon/Arya.(even if anyone happens at all in the books) :worried:


#421

How do you mean, exactly?

If you´re asking what I think you´re asking, I guess it´s like you said before. GRRM likes to break expectations and play with tropes. Red herrings distract us from what´s really going on, which enables the mysteries to be..well, mysteries. Dany is built up to be Azoi Ahai (and on paper, she does look like a perfect fit), but it´s a little too obvious, too perfect, too good to be true, in my opinion. I think he´s hiding Jon in plain sight, while parading Dany for everyone to see.

I´ve never liked the Sansa-Tyrion pairing tbh...the idea that she should end up with him because he didn´t force himself on her stinks of nice guy-ism to me (I know that´s not what you´re saying, but that´s one of my problems with it). Having said that, I hope some kind of alliance is built between them in the future, as they both seem to think well of each other even after they part.

Oh and no, they´re not married. Tyrion didn´t consummate it, and even if he had, they´re both considered guilty of treason in the South. Any marriage that occurred then is definitely invalid now. The same goes for her marriage to Ramsay.


#422

Ok thanks :grinning: , but Dany is kind of an inverse red herring, cuz In my oppinon she seems to be the hero but in the end she will be a villain.

I’ts a good point, I like it because is like Sansa always wanted to marry a king/knight in shining armor but at the end gets married to a dwarf? (I don’t know the correct term), and tyrion is a badass.
I can’t wait to see how Sansa and Tyrion react when they meet each other again. :grin:


#423

What do you guys think about a final to GOT where there is no big final battle betwen the Others and humans but instead pace is made betwen them?


#424

Wow just got to see the last episode (have been spoiler avoiding lately, harder than you think lol)

I think Cersei's probably not going to survive the next season either, she's made a fatal mistake by killing a lot of people she didn't strictly need to at Balor. She's consumed by a need for revenge and that included taking out most of her Highgarden competition (while leaving one of the most important members free to inact revenge) as well as the high sparrow, his minions and lots of bystanders. Unfortuntely that has not worked out well for her. She lived for her children and now they're all gone. I think she'll get progressively more ruthless and deranged from here on in.

I don't think that Jamie will even be able to kill her himself unless it's a murder/suicide. He may get to the point where he stands aside and lets someone else do it though. Something in his expression make me think he's well aware she's responsible for the destruction at Balor and indirectly Tommen's death. He killed a king to stop the wildfire being used in that way, now his own sister has gone ahead and done it.

As much as I like Arya, the whole time I had it running though my head "She's just been stabbed a dozen times in the abdomen! She should be dying, not running/jumping around the city the next day. Even a bit of morphine isn't going to let you do that. The should've gone for less and only let her be stabbed once or injured in a less vital area as it came across as being unrealistic. (You can't tell me that she didn't end up with a extensive blood loss and lacerated bowel at the very least from that attack- I know, it's TV reality :wink: ).

I wonder is Ramsey's dogs will end up with Arya's wolf? If they don't disappear from the story line (which is possible), that's where I'd put my money on them going. Arya's looking like she's going to go on a revenge rampage taking out her enemies one by one. If she can find her direwolf with a huge pack under her control it could help her with that and make her quite formidable in her own right.

Tommen didn't surprise me , he's been looking like meeting his end sooner rather than later from the start. I thought Margary might survive it as she's a stronger character but that's never stopped the show from killing off characters before. It's kind of a shame she didn't get out in time with Tommen just thinking she died. If she fled before Cersie knew she was still alive it could have made for some interesting story lines later on between her and Cersie as well as who the crown actually belongs to since the Baerathon line seems extinct apart from bastards now. I could see her going for the iron thorn under the right circumstances.

I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Melisandre. She's giving the appearance of a religious fanatic who's waking up to the fact that she's not infallible through her belief and is in a bit of a crisis state, tormented over some of the things she felt she had to do. She no longer has the same arrogance but still seems to have the will to live. I think she'll turn up again eventually.

I don't know what will happen with Dany and Jon. One thing she says when Asha is asking for her help is "she's not demanding, she's asking. Others are welcome to ask too." and she then decides to support her claim to the iron throne.

I think it's possible when she sees what's going on north of the wall, finds out Jon is kin (maybe) and realises Jon doesn't want the iron throne himself and could make a strong ally, she may decide to allow Jon some kind of title to continue to rule (with restrictions) in the north if he doesn't directly defy her. She's getting pretty cold and ruthless though at times. Lucky she has Tyrion there to balance her decisions, something she seems to realise deep down. Tyrion likes Jon, so he's got her advisor on side already.

There is the whole who is Azoi Ahai though. If Jon is Targayen and decides to push for the iron throne then it could play out quite differently. At the moment though, he seems to just want the North.

Speaking of Tyrion, without his father there to force the point, I suspect he'll release Sansa from marriage of his own free will if she asks. He always seemed to find the forced marriage distasteful anyway. I'm curious to see what Baelish gets up to now that Sansa has turned him down for now.

I think Sansa will let Jon be "King of the North" for now. She's been to hell and back and knows full well she's not a military tactician like Jon as is needed to get the North to rise up against their enemies. She knew Ramsey and made the correct call on that one and it seems unlikely Jon will ignore her advice next time. Even though she knew it was wrong, she couldn't tell him a better way to manage the fight short of "get more men" which at that juncture was not an available option for Jon. She messed up by not telling Jon that she had enlisted Little Finger's help. Bad decisions were made on both sides. Also Little finger offered her a way to take the throne and she turned it down, instead sitting by without any appearance of annoyance at Jon's rise in power.

I don't think Euron will be able to control Dany's dragons successfully long term. Anyone not a Targaryen (and maybe not even then) seems to have their lungs burnt out if they sound it. I'd imagine you'd run out of volunteers pretty quickly. I guess it depends on how long term the effect is and whether anyone non-mortal (Benjen anyone?) could sound it and live on. I can't see Dany using it, "mother" of her dragons and against slavery as she is.


#425

So who are you all's favorite characters? I'll start.

Mine is Jorah Mormont, that guy is a badass but also realistically so. Probably the most "real" character in the show, with past gambling addiction, unrequited love, and catching a disease in the line of duty. If he does die, it'll be for a good reason, and I don't think anyone would be crappy enough o stab him in the back or poison him. I hope to see more of him in the next season!

I've kind of lost all empathy for Dany, but I can see how he would still be in love with her. What do you all think?


#426

Well, I read the first book a few months before the show came out and I pretty much fell in love with Dany on her first appereance. That didn't change throughout any of the books, but I won't deny her character did sort of decayed with time, but that, in my opinion, gave her more realism. She was a teen during all the books, still is, of course she would fuck up, that's what teens do.
And in the show, well, I love her there too but the producers gave her way too much power. I mean, Wind of Winter isn't out yet, so I can't make comparisons, but that scene where she walks out of a fire again was totally uncalled for. The first time it happened for a number of reasons, not because she is inmmune to fire. Still my favourite character though.


#428

I don't have a favorite. There's just too many. There's also too many I hate, too many I hate as much as I love, too many who're already dead so I wouldn't bother mentioning, and too many who need to die even though I like them... There's just too many characters. With too many hard to spell names to boot. XD.
But I will say most of favorites are side characters who really don't get enough screen time.

(If I'd read the books the spelling would be no problem. But I made the conscious decision to watch the show before I read the books because right as I finally got around to reading the books they announced the show. And I know better. I can't do book first unless I want to buy a new... whatever piece of furniture I accidentally break in the cussing out process. Eragon we lost a throw pillow, Ella Enchanted we lost the rocking chair, and I don't even want to talk about the Golden Compass. Pretty much the only book to film that I've actually read and hasn't pissed me off to some degree is Charlotte's Web. Lol.)


#429

Pot Pie? XD

Anyone ever wonder how Hodor translates to other languages? I think in Spanish his name would be Sipuerta; Cierro la Puerto, Cierro la Puerto!!! (My high school Spanish is a little rusty maybe I messed up?) I know it's Hodor in all languages but still...now it doesn't make sense.


#430

In Spanish it would translate to Cierra La Puerta or to Sosten La Puerta . And you're right, unless viewers from non English-speaking countries have an understanding of English, it would make no sense whatsoever to them. No one to blame for it, no one knew what Hodor meant.
EDIT: but you don't need to know English to realize that both Hodor and hold the door sound similar, you can make the connection. But if it is dubbed or you can't hear and relay on subtitles then that's it.