I Do think it's kinda fkd up that she didn't tell him she would ask for help. They could have waited a few more hours to start the attack. But it made for one of the best scenes ever on TV.
Well, contextually, "be brave" and "don't trust Littlefinger" are again, common sense. Like Jon asked, "what would you have me do?" "I don't know anything about battles, so I don't know." Sure, did she give him advice? Yeah. You can say that. Was it particularly helpful? I'd say no. It probably wasn't. Is Sansa becoming less useless and more assertive? Undoubtedly. But bottom line, this comes back to military commonsense 101- telling me to be brave or telling me not to do what my enemy wants to do are factors I've already planned on. If you're giving me proper advice, let me know that I should wait because the Knights of the Vale are en route. Or that you've made overtures to Littledinger to get him to come help wirh the forces he has at his disposal. Don't tell me something that anyhalfway decent commander has already thought through, you know?
He didn't seem to have thought it through though. He fell for it, so it wasn't common sense for him. Or it was, but he said "fuck it" and let his emotions lead him anyway.
And a lot of people have trusted Littlefinger, so there's that too.
It looked like common sense to us, because as the audience, we knew what type of guy Ramsay was. But everyone else bar Sansa, didn't really. They underestimated his depravity, and his intelligence. Which is why Sansa shouldn't really have been ignored at that stage, by everyone, not just Jon. She had some insight.
Sansa made a big mistake too, but she also made a lot of sense.
I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree here, because we're interpreting things a touch differently. "Don't do what he wants you to do," is pretty straightforward simple stuff in my book. In planning a patrol, for instance- I look for likely ways to not walk into ambushes. Stuff like that.
I concur. Let's change subjects.
How shitty was it of Dany to send Jorah away to find a cure for his greyscale when she was better suited to help him? Tyrion, at the time, was an advisor and he managed to summon the High Priestess of R'hollor. Daenerys is a Queen and commands three dragons. Surely if she asked them they could blow a little smoke say some prayers and take care of the arm, right?
Were Benjen's actions, namely leaving Bran and Meera without food, shelter or transportation (Meera was dragging Bran using a sleigh or something like that when they sacrificed Hodor) somewhere beyond The Wall; less shitty, more shitty, or just as shitty as Daenerys' actions in the previous question? Where is Meera supposed to drag Bran now? Since Bran was marked, they can't through the wall, right?
Now that Yara and Theon managed to secure an alliance (or at least were able to reach an agreement) with Daenerys, what is Euron going to do now? Could he go to Cersei and marry her?
D & D said there would be a moment in the series finale "that would break the internet". Was there a moment that broke the internets? A lot of big stuff happened but I don't think any of those broke the internets.
I thought the same thing at the time. A cure like this, if it's possible to find in time, won't come cheap. Assuming she wants him to live, and she clearly seemed to do so, why did she send him out alone and virtually penniless without any support when she as a queen could marshal far more resources to aid him?
It's not clear that the glamour that hid the weyrwood underneath which the Children and the Three Eyed Raven lived is the same as the enchantment powering the Wall. If they are the same, then Brandon crossing the wall is going to be a disaster. If not, then it's no harm no foul.
Yeah, it was kind of odd that not only did Euron not show up in Mereen at the same time as Yara and Theon, or shortly thereafter, but he and his super-sized fleet didn't get mentioned at all in the last few eps. If they manage to attack Dany's fleet while her troops are still at sea, especially if HBO Euron has the magical dragon horn, that could spell big trouble for Dany's ability to get her troops to Westeros. I have a hard time seeing Cersei marrying Euron, but stranger things have happened, and if it was the only way she thought she could keep the Iron Throne, she might go through the motions, and then have him killed as soon as she didn't need him any more.
It was a bit of hyperbole. I think they were referring to Cersei blowing up The High Sparrow, Margaery, Loras, Lord Tyrell, and many of the nobles of King's Landing present at the trial, as well as the High Sparrow's minions. Then there was also the assassination of Grand Maester Pycelle, and the murder of Lancel all simultaneously arranged by our favorite psycho queen as well.
I don't think Jorah's decease is so simply to cure with just some prayers. Stannis did say that he went through many maesters until one found the way to save Shireen.
Bran has got to cross the Wall. I don't think the battle against the Night King would take place outside of it. I mean, I thought the Nigh King might use the Horn of Winter to take it down but they never gave it importance in the show so...Let Bran fuck up. And Benjen, well, he cannot cross, so all he could do was to take them to the Wall, protect them till they got there. The Three Eyed Raven sent him to them, before he died, so maybe he told Ben to take them there.
Euron might try to marry Cercei, but she wouldn't marry Loras back in the day...And I'm pretty sure she went badshit crazy so I doubt she would see the need to do it, however, they are both fucked if they don't rally together so...They'll work something out.
The confirmation of Jon being a Targaryen perhaps? It's what makes the most sense. Sure, they didn't say "Jon's father is Rhaegar." But the theory is highly famous so...Maybe they hoped people would get it
I wouldn't say shitty, more like it was her only real choice. She had to choose between letting Jorah, a man who loves her more than anything, stay with her growing army and risk the spread of greyscale, or tell him to find a cure that may or may not exist. At this time she had no knowledge of the Red Priestess in Mereen, as that was Tyrion and Varys' doing, and it's unlikely she had much in the way of money, what with her just being kidnapped and all.
All of this goes without mentioning that the 'will of Rh'llor' is incredibly iffy and random. Someone could have their arm cured of greyscale or their symptoms could worsen overnight.
Well presumably they are just on the other side of the wall, and only need to do a slight trek through some woodless area before meeting what's left of the NW on the Wall. Not to mention there's nothing else for them to do. Either Meera drags Bran through or she leaves him to die. Iirc, she's sworn to protect him, so leaving him to die is out of the question.
Almost certainly. Either Euron is going to marry Cersei in exchange for what's left of her fleets, or he's going to (through the wonders of offscreen plot development) magically have a fleet that can challenge Dany's. Either way, he is likely going to destroy 1/3 - 1/2 of her forces at sea.
It was almost certainly them overhyping it. If anything, that moment was in the first 20 minutes, or during Jon's crowning & parentage reveal.
Yeah, I hope he finds the cure though. I'm glad we got to meet Jorahs daughter or whatever in episode 9 though!
I think they though revealing Jon Snow's parents would be more astounding than it was. Another possible interpretation is the song that played in the beginning, it's trending at #1 on a lot of charts, it's pretty good eh but not break the internet material I guess...
Killing half the cast with wildfire might've been that moment. They're making room for CGI next season, hopefully.
Also, since it was foreshadowed pretty heavily, who do you guys think Dany is going to marry? There are so few male cast members that are marriageable at this point. Jon Snow is likely going to marry Dany, unless they introduce a new character. I know that a lot of people don't want this to happen, but I mean, why not? Ned Stark's parents are cousins, Tywin Lannister's wife was his cousin, the Targs are known for incest amiright?
Plus, we can't forget that Jon Snow is apparently a good kisser, and not only on the lips.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
eligible "husbands" for Dany:
Jon Snow - Aside from the fact that he's her nephew, and that's arguably more of a plus than a minus when it comes to Targaryen's, and they they may not find out until after they're wedded, he's probably the best candidate. He's everything she wants and needs in a husband.
Bran Stark - He's a true-born Stark and the rightful Lord of Winterfell. He also has a one-of-a-kind and extremely useful skillset as a greenseer. He's a bit too young for Dany however, and his handicap limits his effectiveness on the battlefield. She's picked up a taste for manly men, and that he is not.
Jon Arryn - His army is fresh and has mostly sat out the fighting so far. He's extremely young and very childish however. I don't see Dany tying herself to a spoiled brat.
Edmure Tully - His domain is war-ravaged and he surrendered his own castle, ordering his men to throw down their arms. He has nothing to offer at this point, and besides, legally he's already married. He's a loser, and Dany is looking for a winner.
Jaimie Lannister - On paper he's the best choice along with Jon Snow, even better than Jon since Jaimie is an eldest son instead of a bastard. Handsome, a tested battle leader, and heir to what is perceived to be the richest house on Westeros. He seems an excellent choice until we consider that he's incestuously tied to Cersei the mad who is the villainess now. Besides, Briene has dibbs on him if he survives Cersei's downfall.
Tyrion Lannister - On paper Jaimie is the better candidate, but Tyrion is smarter than his elder brother and has earned Dany's respect and loyalty. And if Jaimie steps aside or gets killed, than Tyrion becomes the Lord of the Westerlands, and the richest of the Westerosi Lords. Should Dany take two husbands the way Aegon the Conqueror took his two sisters as wives, than he might be the second husband, especially if he turns out to be her half-brother as some fans suspect. Honestly, instead of playing the family incest game, I'd rather see him with a more mature Sansa who can finally see beyond his height to the brilliant man that he is.
Euron Greyjoy - He has a big fleet and a big ****. Dany has no need for either at this point. Dany will only accept his proposal if there is no other way she can win, and then she will arrange his death as soon as she no longer needs him, likely before the wedding can occur.
Theon Greyjoy - Had he never been mutilated and emotionally broken by Ramsay, this might have been possibility. As it is there is no way that Dany will marry this wreck of a man.
Yara Greyjoy - There is definitely fling potential at a minimum here given the flirting so far. Dany doesn't have to marry her to gain her support however, and the Iron Islands don't have much of an army. Unless they fall in love, which I consider unlikely, there really is no reason to turn this into a marriage.
Bran Stark - Bran is crippled, and probably can't even have children. He's also supposed to take over the role of Bloodraven, so he might very well become connected to a tree.
Jamie Lannister- We can't forget that he also killed Dany's father, so that would be awkward
Robin Arryn- A part of his army just declared for Jon Snow under the leadership of Littlefinger, so he might not be as useful as we think
Edmure Tully- He apparently loves his wife so he might not leave her if given the choice.
Tyrion- She's already allied to Tyrion, so a marriage would be redundant. It might even hurt her politically, considering how much people hate him.
Euron Greyjoy- Dany is allied to Theon and (Yara?) already so she probably wouldn't consider it. She also basically promised to take the iron islands from him, so a marriage would be shortlived.
Theon- He might even be less respected than Tyrion, and has no cock, so you're right.
Yara- Dany in the books has been in bisexual relationships but marrying Yara is redundant. She also promised to grant the iron island's independence, so that would be a messy political situation. In the show there seems to be an anti-gay component to the Faith that could deter a marriage. However, Dany has Dragons so who the hell is gonna challange her?
Unless the show pulls a character out of nowhere it seems like marrying the guy who is technically in open rebellion and uniting the kingdoms is the only choice. Although, Jon would totally bend the knee willingly in order to fight the threat beyond the wall.
All in all the show is totally foreshadowing a marriage and it all seems to point in one direction.
Item the first: I like to think he got his first side quest. As far as I can tell this may have been the most merciful option. I don't think red priests can fix it, else they'd have a buttload more fanatical followers.
Item #2 Different flavors of shitty. Leaving a crippled kid with just a tiny little lady to help him was kinda shitty, but he did get them up to the wall, or so it sounded.
Item #3 I doubt it. He's probably just gonna go do Ironborn shit. Rape and pillage, try and take some shit. Maybe he's crazy enough to try Dany head on. We'll see!
Item #4 I suspect it's a toss up between wildfire going boom and the parental revelation. We'll see. I suspect we'll see some hot Targaryen on Targaryen loving before its over.
They're incredibly close to castle black though. In season 1 we see the same tree when the the night's watchmen are doing their vows. Uncle BenBen is totally not an asshole for what he did. BenBen is also totally undead, and we know that the Wall has magic that wouldn't allow him to enter because of that.
Exactly. Sending him alone without any support is practically an exile and death sentence all in one.
True, however, this is the religion that has brought multiple people back from the dead and one of those people multiple times. Clearly their prayers have a little bit more of a kick to them, wouldn’t you agree?
Not really. She could have said something like “Ride ahead of us so we don’t risk spreading the spreading of greyscale.” I agree that she couldn’t have possibly known about the Red Priestess in Mereen but my argument was that if Tyrion could have her come to Mereen so could she. I would agree with you on Daenerys having little money on her if she had not taken over the dothraki. They aren’t known for being poor. At least Drogo had a considerable amount of wealth. The dothraki get tribute from some cities and they deal in the slave trade.
I’ll agree with you on that.
Not knowing whether they are the same enchantment or not, would you take the chance letting them through? Although, @WillyJackson said something important:
No, that’s not it.
If I remember correctly Benjen went through the same ritual that made the first White Walker/Night King, so if he can’t go through it’s quite possible the others can’t either.
Maybe he did, but we didn’t see a scene where that happened nor did Benjen mentioned The Three Eyed Raven telling him to get them there, so that particular argument can’t be made.
In Euron’s defense, Yara and Theon ran away with all/most of the ships and the last time we saw him he told his men to start building more ships. Also there’s a severe lack of resources in the Iron Islands. “We do not sow” and all that the Greyjoys/Ironborn say and do.
For the sake of Daenerys’ dragons I hope she can get to Westeros in a matter of hours. How long could those dragons fly before having to rest and where would they?
At this time they are each others only possible allies. The Vale is already with the North and Highgarden along with Dorne allied themselves with Daenerys. And the Iron Throne is in debt to the Iron Bank but I doubt that will come up again.
If it weren’t for Tywin’s death she would have married Loras. Tywin threaten Lady Olenna with making Loras a member of the Kingsguard if she didn’t consent to the marriage.
That definitely was huge but I think:
I think Cersei being crowned Queen might have been what they were going for. In show cannon she’s the first Queen to sit on the Iron Throne as ruler of the “seven” kingdoms.
Perhaps. But I would argue that probable was not the moment they were referring to precisely because the theory is so famous. The implication that Jon is Rhaegar’s son is certainly very strong, however I wouldn’t consider it confirmed until it is explicitly said “Rhaegar is Jon’s father”.
??? His daughter? I must have missed that.
From the people that have been introduced in the show so far, no one is a good candidate. Some random Velaryon could be introduced and that would be a safe choice.
He is known for doing that thing with his mouth. However, when people are brought back from the dead, they lose a part of themselves. What if he forgot?
That's not a probably, just a maybe. Spinal damage does not necessarily mean impotence. There are plenty of wheel-chair bound men whose male equipment works just fine.
His mentor said that wouldn't happen to Bran.
Good point! Accepting your father was a madman is one thing, marrying his killer is another matter entirely.
Littlefinger isn't going to take Sansa's rejection lying down. I won't be surprised if he sides with Cersei against Jon and Sansa in the beginning of next season. Maybe he'll marry Cersei in a plot to steal the crown from her and become king himself.
He barely even got to know his wife before they threw him in a cell. I don't doubt that he feels a certain fondness for her, but I suspect that he was more concerned with his prospective child's survival.
Only three people hated him, and two of them are dead. As for the third, she too will be dead by the time Dany takes the throne, because there will be no other way for Dany to take the Iron Throne except over Cersei's dead body. So that's not a strike against him.
Euron has a bigger fleet than Dany, and he may well have a Dragon Horn that can deal with Dany's dragons. So it's not impossible that he may put Dany in a position where she has no choice but to accept his marriage proposal. If that occurs, I expect her to find a way out of it ASAP however.
Now that Cersei has blown up the Sept of Balor, the seat of the Church of the Seven in King's Landing, along with the High Sparrow and his army of fanatical goons, I don't think the Church is in any shape to give Dany a hard time.
I think its worth noting that Dany wasn't really being an asshole. She's got priorities, like taking over the 7 kingdoms. But I also think that she knows that the likelihood of Jorah surviving is extremely low, with or without her help, and I think her telling him to find the cure was more of her way of saying goodbye, and that she loved him too, just... in a more friendly way.
I should proofread before hitting "reply" :\
Probably and maybe mean the same thing. We're arguing over semantics at this point.
True, I forgot.
I'm pretty sure Jaime knows that Tyrion killed Tywin though. And Tyrion has always been looked down upon based on his dwarfism. Without his father to silence people they might get more courageous
Does he though? She has the fleets of the Reach and Dorne, and in the books I distinctly remember the Reach having a powerful navy. Adding on to that, half of Euron's fleet was stolen by Theon and Yara.
How is Euron going to build his "thousand" ships anyway? That would be impossible, unless the show comes up with some made up answer. Dany also already has enough ships to transport her army, which was Euron's initial goal.
Aurane waters might even declare for Dany, since he's of valyrian descent and an opportunist that swindled Cersi from her ships. Although, i'm pretty sure he's not in the show so that's a moot point.
In Euron’s defense, Yara and Theon ran away with all/most of the ships and the last time we saw him he told his men to start building more ships. Also there’s a severe lack of resources in the Iron Islands. “We do not sow” and all that the Greyjoys/Ironborn say and do. [/quote]
What makes you think Yara and Theon ran away with all/most of the ships? I was under the impression that they had ran off with House Greyjoy’s ships while Euron as the newly crowned king was gathering the forces of the other islands to crush Yara and Theon. So while Yara and Theon left with a sizeable number of ships, it was nowhere near the size of the combined fleet of all the Iron Islands. There is still a reckoning with Euron coming…
It’s call The Narrow Sea for very good reason. I don’t think Dany’s dragons will have any difficulties.
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if Littlefinger arranged for the Vale to switch sides now that Sansa has rejected him.
[quote=“CaballeroDeAndromeda, post:364, topic:9642, full:true”][quote=“Drbg, post:359, topic:9642”]
Also, since it was foreshadowed pretty heavily, who do you guys think Dany is going to marry?
From the people that have been introduced in the show so far, no one is a good candidate. Some random Velaryon could be introduced and that would be a safe choice. [/quote]
That would violate the standard television show formula, and since they left the pages of GRRM’s already written novels, the show writers have tended to predictably follow the standard formula, albeit one with a high shock value quotient
I know that feeling well. The first 10 minutes after I post one of my longer replies is usually spent on making corrections, sometimes I catch them before someone responds, and sometimes I don't.
Ok. I was just saying impotence should not be assumed when it hasn't been mentioned.
He would never have become Hand of the King the first time around if he wasn't respected. The problem wasn't that he lacked the respect of the people, the problem was that he lacked the respect of his own family, most notably Tywin, Cersei and Joffrey. He doesn't need anyone else to protect him, as Hand of the King he can order people put to death, not that he would do so without reason, but few are going to dare to disrespect him when he speaks in the King/Queen's name.
The show has clearly moved off on its own direction away from the books. HBO Dorne isn't anything like Dorne in the books, and that's one of many departures.
That's not what I recall happening.
It's not the least bit impossible. He was gathering a fleet from all of the other Iron Islands to attack Yara and Theon who were holed up in Balon's old keep. They fled with House Greyjoy's fleet before he finished gathering the fleets of the other Iron Islands together.
True, but do you seriously think that Euron is going to simply give up and go away now?
The show has changed too many things at this point for us to expect things like entirely unmentioned fleets being exactly like in the books.