Game of Thrones TV SHOW (spoilers)


The difference between an acknowledged bastard and a legitimized bastard can be fudged when the powers that be desire it. Nevertheless no one even knows Jon is Rhaegar’s son aside from Brandon. Convincing all of the other Lords of Westeros that he’s a Targaryen at this point would likely be an uphill battle. Unless Dany’s dragons suddenly started doing aerial carthwheels upon meeting Jon, or Jon publicly demonstrates a similar immunity to fire, I don’t see a way for Jon to easily clear that acknowledgement hurdle, which is a problem even if he is true-born when no one is aware of it.


Well, that's clearly changed. Especially now, Westeros is a very might makes right sorta world. It'll be interesting to see how everything plays out.


BTW, a woman has -never- held the Iron Throne. As per the Great Council of 101 AC, If there is a male relative, no matter how distant, that male relative inherits over any female members of the line, even the last king's daughter.


Westeros would make an exception to that rule, for the following reason(s):



I'll give you that one. :smile_cat:


Dany did say that marriage is the best way to form an alliance anyhow...The Queen of Dragons and The White Wolf, that is an incest I abide for.


Correction: we all abide.


...Just saw this.

Couldn't pass it up.


If Arya doesn't get to Gregor first...

And is Sandor still on her list? Maybe she'll sit back and wait to see who wins, thinking she'll just kill the winner, but have a change of heart if it's Sandor.


That's kind of my hope. Sandor's turned the corner for the better, and it's really kinda neat to see a redemption story coming out of it. Knowing though, that we're talking about Game of Thrones, I fully anticipate that he'll still die horribly.


In the House of Black and White she said to The Waif she no longer wanted to kill The Hound.


Sansa didn’t win the battle either, Little Finger did because he’s obsessed with her and it suits his own schemes to help her. About the only thing she did was beg for his help and look pretty for him.

Honestly, I don’t know why people are still thinking that she’s all of a sudden some strong female figure and isn’t still the same useless Sansa that she’s always been.

Up until this Battle of the Bastards she hasn’t done anything except be a whipping girl that did practically nothing to improve her station except sit around and hope someone saved her.

She doesn’t even make for a likable "damsel", she’s just a horrible character all around.

Sandor saves her
Tyrion saves her
Varys/The Tyrells try to save her
Little Finger saves her multiple times
Brienne and Pod save her
Hell, even Theon (Male Sansa) saves her

Seriously, if she needed saving any more, her name would be Princess Peach.


Well, turning Ramsey into dog meat (and not the cute, endearing dog from fallout) does lend to the notion that she's starting to suck less.


Nah she still sucks mainly because killing Ramsay after everyone else did the heavy lifting doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot. And I'd be saying that even if Ramsay wasn't one of my favorite characters.

The whole Battle of the Bastards was one big idiot ball and bad cliche writing on both sides anyway. I won't say it wasn't a cool battle, but it had a lot of problems.


You'll note I didn't say she didn't still suck. I said she's starting to suck less. And yes, it was cliche. Yes, both sides played the idiot ball rather heavily. There was some impetuousness on the parts of both commanders. Although, the Bolton shield wall was actually well-executed, and reminded me of riot control techniques, that is, if they continued to steamroll. Now, bottom line is that it was written for a show; they had to do what they could within the medium and time given. All things considered, I don't think it was terrible.


Sansa isn't a strong female figure because she gets shit done, or does any heavy lifting.

She's respected because she doesn't take shit from anyone anymore. She's lost that naivety. She's grown as a person.

She survived the Lannisters AND the Boltons.

And she was right about Ramsay and Rickon. Jon ignored her advice, and it nearly cost them everything.


And she only survived the Lannisters and the Boltons because:

A. The sadists were too busy having fun torturing her.

B. She got saved by someone else.

Wasn’t like she cleverly escaped them on her own, all she did was “take shit” from them.

Her being right about Ramsay and Rickon doesn’t really mean anything. Jon being easily trolled by Ramsey isn’t a plus or negative in her favor.

If she REALLY wanted to be useful instead of just telling Jon the obvious of how he needed more men and that he was going to fail, she should have provided the info that Little Finger was on his way and he probably would have listened or at least planned better. (Then again its Jon and he's easily trolled like most with Stark blood)

Yeah, maybe she’s lost her naivety, but I’d argue she should have lost that LONG before she even escaped the Lannisters and instead of utilizing any of that backstabbing scheming knowledge she observed by Littlefinger/Lannisters/Varys/Tyrells instead she’s still bumbling around which arguably makes her worse because now she doesn’t even have innocence to excuse her behavior.


The alternative to taking shit was death. She isn't Arya or Brienne or even Dany. She has literally been raised to be a Lady. She never learned how to fight.

A clever escape depends on people helping you. Sansa depended on people to help her. And escaped. I'm not sure what else you want from her.

You don't go from someone who believes in fairytales to a master schemer within a few years because you've seen a master or two at work.

But I'm not sure what you mean. She got Lysa to back off through a "I'm a stupid little girl" act, turned the tables on Littlefinger while making allies out of the Lords of the Vale, poked at Ramsay's insecurities and effectively manipulated Theon into saving her.

Trusting Littlefinger by going to the Boltons' was a bad call, but that's about it.

Her being right about Ramsay and Rickon does mean something. If Jon had listened, he wouldn't have been so easily trolled by Ramsay. Which was frustrating, since Jon is a pretty shrewd guy in the books.

Yes, she should have told him. And he should have listened to her. Both kind of hold the idiot ball in that regard, but I'd put it down to a lack of trust between them.

As for her "behaviour", that's what I call not taking shit from people (Myranda, Joffrey, Ramsay) and calling people out on their bs (Cersei, and Theon to some extent), while still managing to be one of the kindest people in the series, despite everything that happened to her. That's resilience.


Still not convinced that she’s all that strong. She doesn’t need to be a mastermind, I would have just rather have seen her suck a whole lot less and actually try to help herself a lot quicker than she did.

Like from the end of season 4, they made out like she was going to be this person that was finally going to be in control of her destiny. (Dark Sansa rises and all that)

Instead we just got Sansa Torture 2: Bolton Boogaloo

I mean it seems now maybe she’s changing, but again I saw that glimmer before at the end of season 4 before it got snuffed out, and we’re on season 7 now? It’s a little too late for me to start rooting for this character given that she’s been doing nothing but failing for the most part.

I suppose her only saving grace to me is she's not as boring as Bran.


It would be just like GRRM to have her jealous of Jon Snow's power. Little finger isn't so pleased, and I saw that look in the last episode...

All I can hope is that the new enemies will force them to unite, and also MORE ZOMBIES, please!

Also, if Arya got all the way back to Westeros at the same time Varys got to Dorne, then Daernys should be at Westeros in a minute. How has no one crossed the ocean with an army before, it's tiny!