Game of Thrones TV SHOW (spoilers)


#229

How did Quasimodo survive a gut stab thats been contaminated with sewer water then start doing some parkour like the day after?


#230

HBO and David and Dan.

Those three are really powerful but demented gods.


#231

It's about time we had some nice battles. This was definitely the single most action packed ep of the season so far. With only one ep left in the season, it just might take honors for action. There were some flaws in the way the battles were handled that made me arch a brow, but I was pleased enough overall that I will refrain from going into them.

I knew Rickon was going to die. He received no character development unlike the other Stark children. He was the "extra" Stark, "the throw-away" with no plot armor. And once he fell into Ramsey's hands, his survival prospects became bleak. RIP Rickon.

I also knew Ramsey was going to die once it came down to a battle between Jon and Sansa on the one side and Ramsey on the other. All roads forward for the Stark plot lead through Ramsey. If Jon didn't have such powerful plot armor I'd say he was extremely lucky to survive that killing field of a battle, because despite Sansa's warning, Jon allowed himself to get played by Ramsey like a fiddle. Luckily the Knights of the Eyrie arrived just in time to bail him out.

Previously I hadn't been certain whether it would be Jon or Sansa who would get the honor of killing Ramsey. They both deserved the honor. Thus it was fitting that both Jon and Sansa had a role in it, with Jon beating him to a pulp, and then Sansa treating him to the same fatal end he had treated so many of his other countless victims. His death was a karmic one.

I didn't really get to know Rickon enough to mourn his loss, but I was very sad to see Wun Wun the last Giant die. At least Wun Wun's passing was a heroic one...

I kind of almost feel bad for Melisandre. Almost. She's in the middle of a crisis of faith as evidenced by her pessimistic response to Jon when he asks for her advice before the battle. I suspect the death of Shireen and all of the others she consigned to the flames in her mistaken predictions are now haunting her. With the onion knight finding his gift to Shireen by a funeral pyre, it isn't hard for him to figure out who was responsible for Shireen's death either. There is a reckoning coming for Melisandre, one I'm not entirely certain she'll survive.

It seemed a tad jarring when they suddenly switched to Yara and Theon in Dany's throne room. I was surprised they didn't ease into the scene with the two Ironborn shown arriving in Mereen after the battle ended. As a result it came across a little rushed, as if some sort of transition scene was skipped.

Sometimes Dany seems to struggle with her lines, but she nailed them this time around. And when you have as many enemies as she does, it doesn't hurt to have dragons at your beck and call.


#233

It felt weird seeing more characters fall, I really thought smalljon might turn on the Bolton, wun Wun falling in battle was surprised, it was really sad watching rickon being killed were had been a touching reunion if he had survived. I am going to miss Ramsey, it going to be hard replacing him and his dogs sure loved him :smiley:


#234

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has has had to have been the simultaneously most frustrating and yet most relieving episode ever. When the Knights of the Vale came in I literally jumped up screaming with joy and even though Rickon and Wun Wun are dead it was all worth it for the sheer pleasure of seeing Ramsay die when the dogs ate him my friends were all cringing but I was just so Goddamn happy I was almost crying. Well now that I've orgasmed all over this and five other forums I can go to bed and dream happy thoughts of dead Boltons :smiley:


#235

I know it may not be the most reliable source of review but it's interesting to see that as for now:

"38647 IMDb users have given a weighted average vote of 10.0 / 10"

for this episode.


#236

Well deserved to my mind it was actually a pretty realistic battle from a soldier's point of view, great camera work and just all round awesome.


#237

It was a bit silly for the Stark troops to just stand there while the Bolton spearmen exposed their own flank as they ran around them. The spearmen were given plenty of time to encircle them, pivot to face the Stark troops again, set their shield wall and thrust their spears. It doesn't take a master tactician to know that you don't allow your enemy time to maneuver around you, nor does it take a master tactician to know that an enemy who exposes their flank should be made to pay dearly for it. Wun Wun in particular could have knocked them over like a line of dominoes while they were jogging so closely together. Jon acted like a tv show hero instead of a military commander, but this is a tv show, so no surprise...

The initial Knight of the Vale charge was directly into the massed Stark troops. In real life, they would have galloped through the spearmen in between and into the Stark Troops, killing many of them because the Stark troops were packed in so tight there'd have been no room for the Vale mounts to turn. This is TV however so the horses stopped in time and nobody got trampled by friendly troops. After the initial charge, they were a bit more intelligent about it and aimed their lances so that they'd gallop through the Bolton spearmen only.

Why were masked Sons of the Harpy killing people outside of the city wall instead of inside of the city? These rebels wore masks because they lived in the city and didn't want their faces seen so they could be identified if you will recall. It certainly made it convenient for the Dothraki because it gave them a target, but that bit of fighting seemed pointless aside from something concocted to give the Dothraki something to do.

How did Dany capture a fleet of ships? She had no fleet to capture them with. Her dragons probably could have burned most of them before they got away, but aside from sinking them with her dragons, she had no ability to capture them. So what made them surrender instead of sailing away? Why did they think surrender was an option? Dany never offered them surrender terms. It would have been nice had they shown galley slaves rebelling on the ships or something, but they didn't. So this was a bit of sloppy storytelling since the capture of those ships was extremely important, but they just hand-waved that part. TV magic.

I'm also a little surprised that none of those ships were armed with ballistae, I mean it's not like the entire world knew Dany had dragons, its not like there was need to take precautions and bring some weapons capable of taking down dragons along. Nope, that would have been silly. It's so much smarter to attack a city with dragon defenders with flaming pitch to which they are immune, because it's not like the Masters wanted to win or anything...

All that said, it was still the most action packed show of the season, and I enjoyed it overall. I liked Hardhome more however.


#238

I agree with you on the rest, but this part in particular feels like you're just nitpicking. When you hear your allies screaming as they burn alive against creatures most still assume are just a legend, and you're sitting on top of a wooden ship with no clear way to escape (dragons fly and have little resistance. Ships have the crowded bay to deal with), you're likely to throw down your weapons and beg for mercy. These weren't unsullied, they were soldiers. They don't stand until ordered to stop, they give up when they know the alternative is death.

And on the masks, couldn't they be wearing the masks to show their loyalty to the besiegers? It isn't like they besiegers have an easy way to tell friend from foe.


#239

There is no Geneva Convention in this world, and slaver's bay is particularly harsh. There are plenty of enemy leaders who will kill them any way, or consign them to slavery. Given how badly their leadership has demonized Dani, I'm doubtful that they're expecting her to be particularly merciful. In fact, if it weren't for Tyrion, she wouldn't have been the least bit merciful. Thus if I were living in their world and in their shoes, I'd try to escape, not surrender, first by sailing away, and if that didn't work, than jumping overboard before the dragons turned the ship to charcoal. The only way I'd surrender is if Dany made the offer of a pardon in return for surrender, and I had no other choice but to trust her to her word.

I'm also a little surprised that none of those ships were armed with ballistae, I mean it's not like the entire world knew Dany had dragons, its not like there was need to take precautions and bring some weapons capable of taking down dragons along. Nope, that would have been silly. It's so much smarter to attack a city with dragon defenders with flaming pitch to which they are immune, because it's not like the Masters wanted to win or anything...

Why were they killing people outside the city when they could do far more damage inside the city? That made no sense.


#240

Overall, I like how the show is progressing. It could have been a lot better, but I'll take it.

I just hate the fact DnD ruined Dorne and the Iron Islands.

Euron's actor was bad-casting. His acting is stale/bland and such a letdown for an iconic character in the books.

And then you have Dorne. I am okay that they took out Arianne, and just had Doran and Trystane. But what did they do with that? They just have the Sand Snakes (whose actresses are all lousy ones by the way) and have them murdered? For what?

Doran was a chessmaster in the books. Someone like Tywin except less ruthless and more sly. But what did they do with him?

They chose the Sand Snakes instead and made them some sort of Charlie's Angels. But no one really likes them. Even for eye candies. They're not that hot. And again their acting are bad.


#241

Sailing away wouldn't work because dragons are faster than the shops. And if they jumped overboard, they would have to swim to the shore where they would most likely still be captured by Dany's soldiers or burned by the dragons. Surrendering with the ships is therefore most reasonable option.


#242

And birds are faster than baby turtles, but they're are so many baby turtles making for the open ocean the birds can't possibly pick them all off.

No, at least if they jump overboard there is a chance of survival and freedom. Without insight into what's going on in Dany's head that the sailors on those ships don't have, they'd expect her to either kill them out of hand when they try to surrender, or capture them and then make some sort of bloody example of them so no one dares attack her again because that's what rulers in that area do.


#243

Much easier to just raise a white flag.

That will tell Dany that they have surrendered.

That's what ships do.


#244

If all ships tryed to escape, a few might have manged to do it, but most would have been burned. And a ships's crew is more interested in their own survival, not in the escape of some of the others.

Without insight, the most logical thing to do is to try to surrender. If the enemy accepts it and doesn't start burning the surrendered ships it is likely that she also won't kill everybody afterwards. If she doesn't accept the surrender, you could still try to swim away, but this is more dangerous and would be a last resort measure.


#245

One cannot escape a bay crowded with ships unless the ships in the back turn themselves around and leave. All of which takes quite a bit of time (it isn't a car making a U-Turn, it's a boat filled with people and siege weaponry. This is all while other boats are trying to escape and you're being attacked by three dragons.). During this time of attempted escape, Dany would be using her three dragons to burn each ship one by one, with ease. Dragonfire is (in the books, at least) capable of withstanding water, meaning all it takes is Drogon sneezing and suddenly a ship is in flames until it is dust.

The only reason she used all three dragons on one ship was to send a message, not because it was her only way to destroy the ship. If Dany wanted to she could have obliterated that entire fleet within an hour, if not less.

And jumping overboard while in armor is tantamount to suicide. The only reason to do so is because your other option is also a guaranteed death.

I was under the impression that they attacked only because their informants and meetings gave the slavers the impression that Dany was gone, and both her remaining dragons were sealed away. I mean, they would have been right had Dany not returned at the perfect moment (something that annoyed me), and had Tyrion not freed the other two dragons.

So they aren't killed by the volleys into the city? So they can show the landing force that the gates are open? Either way, they likely aren't the only Sons of the Harpy taking part, they were just chosen for that specific area.

Birds can't breath fire and baby turtles aren't made by a substance easily destroyed by said fire.


#246

This last episode was SO good I wanted to die. Daenerys returning and badassing as usual, flirting forging an alliance with Yara. Sansa finally avenging her abuser and conquering Winterfell while Jon Snow proved himself almost useless. I hope next episode Cersei continues this girl strike burning down the septor.


#247

Maybe, maybe not. Given how lazily the dragons were behaving, and how they all ganged up on the same ship, it's not clear that most of the ships would have burned before they could escape. I don't recall Dany ever training her dragons to behave in a military fashion. I suspect getting them to focus on something she desires is a lot like herding cats. Maybe you're right and they have an unlimited amount of fire and won't get bored or tired of plinking ships. And maybe not.

Where you and I most strongly disagree is that they will equate surrender with survival.

Their minds aren't blank slates. They know well what victors do to losers in this world. They've been raised on such gruesome stories, not discussions of human rights and the Geneva Convention like we have. Prisoners of war have no rights in Slaver's Bay, and based on past practice in that part of the world, it's extremely unlikely that they will believe that Dany will simply release them unharmed with merely a stern warning.

There are worse things than dying. Again, the sailors on those ships are not omniscient. They don't have access to Dany's thoughts. All they can do is base their decision on what they believe a much demonized enemy will do to them should they surrender. You clearly have much more pleasant thoughts regarding the fate they would be imagining than I.

I expect the ones closest to the exit to order their oarsmen to immediately make for the open sea. And I expect that given how slowly Dany's dragons are operating, many of those closer to the open sea will be able to get away unless she immediately sends her dragons out to specifically target the ones that try to leave the bay.

They're not being atacked by dragons however. Another more distant ship is. Until their ship in particular is attacked, the smartest thing for them to do is to attempt to escape.

That's all the more reason for the ships to attempt to escape before the dragons get to them.

This is an assumption. I thought it was because she wanted to keep them all within range of her voice. It's hard to command someone or something that can't hear you.

Maybe. Maybe not. It really depends on how long untrained dragons are inclined to stay on task.

This is true if you're dumb enough not to take your armor off either before or after you jump overboard. Sailors don't wear armor however and as soon as it became clear the ground assault was aborted, the soldiers should have taken off their armor. Anybody who wears heavy armor on a boat when they're not about to do an amphibious assault is a total idiot.

Too pat. This assumes the Masters are total idiots which I suppose is par for the course for television, which is highly dependent on characters, most especially villains, picking up the IdiotBall to fuel heavily contrived plots. To entirely base the success of an assault, as well as the expense of all the material and the lives of all the men dedicated to it, including the lives of the Masters themselves, on an assumption like this is beyond stupid.

At least the buildings provided some cover against anything aside from a direct hit. The volleys seemed fairly random and not particularly accurate. It's not clear to me how staying just outside the wall would make them safer, since if the walls were hit, they'd fall on top of the people. I can understand people wanting to flee the city however.

But they weren't attacking the gates, they were attacking harmless people outside the gates. At least attacking gates would have served a small strategic value, I say small because the gates were on the opposite side of the city from the sea and weren't in between the attacking force and the great pyramid from which the city was run. Instead of helping win the battle, they seemed to be committing a pointless act of terror during the middle of a battle. This wasn't just an idiot ball, it was a full-out villain ball whose entire purpose was to give Danio and the Dothraki something to do.

Chosen to do something totally useless when there are countless more useful things they could be doing instead. It kind of cheapens a victory when your enemy is stupid.

Too many assumptions based on the villains being stupid and the dragons being all-powerful, when clearly as demonstrated in the gladiatorial battle that isn't the case, at least not unless it suddenly becomes convenient for the show.


#248

Not sure if anyone notice this but is Jon lord of winterfell now or is Sansa in charge ? I mean he a bastard... not a legitimate stark,
with Robb and Rickon dead plus Bran gone with everyone likely consider him dead. The male line of house Stark is technically extinct now with Rickon' death.


#249

Odds are they're going to give it to Sansa, at least until Bran returns, and even then he may decide to let her keep it since he has other concerns now. Trueborn daughters inherit before bastards, even legitimized ones, and Jon turned down Stannis's offer to legitimize him. Of course if Jon really wanted to, he could claim it via force of arms, but I doubt he has the inclination. The tv show version of Sansa has displayed far more savvy and cunning than the tv show version of Jon has, so I suspect he will bend his knee to her.