Definitely, I would only want to do it if it was clear - at best it would be annoying and at worst would seem like a bug if it wasn’t!
That sounds nice! I feel like if the PC’s “first move” is framed right it would feel organic. I’ve got sufficient variables set up that it could work this way - I’ll have a think.
Aww! Thank you so much. I hope I can explore it thoughtfully! I think it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out with different NPCs also. (One of the NPCs considers herself straight at the beginning, and the PC can romance her as the first non-man she’s been interested in.)
That’s great to hear, thank you for sharing! I also like seeing options even if I won’t take them - it makes me feel confident that the author’s been thinking about lots of possibilities
Yeah, I know what you mean on this. I tend to do that too, partly because it matches me but also because I want to keep my options open in case there’s a romance interest who I fall for unexpectedly. It’s annoying to inadvertently lock oneself out of seeing something it turns out you want to see!
I think there’s some room for this - certainly a sense of widening perspectives. The PC has had a very heteronormative upbringing (to put it mildly) and for various reasons their sense of what’s “allowed” may have shifted. I’d like to allow for the PC to talk/think about where this shift might have come from if there’s room for it.
Someone on Tumblr suggested instead of “men only, but who knows if that might change?”, using “men only, so far” which I like more so I’m probably going to change the wording to that. I think it’s more direct and more related to the PC’s internal thoughts. I might add a little tag like [you can romance other genders later if you want], but more neatly written, to make it absolutely clear.
I like such possibility, and i think it’s one of reasons why it’s better not to have MC’s sexuality defined with something like explicit question at the start (or at all for this matter). Give options to approach everyone, and the options to turn down advances from characters the MC (according to the player) isn’t into, and then let the player mix and match freely.
The choices made previously can be used to draw some sort of approximation of what the MC is into, but nothing hardcoded. I’d probably also refrain from dwelling too much on the “i thought i was into X but turns out Y is fine too” internal monologues and leave that up to the player to headcanon for themselves if they wish so (and/or as option to maybe bring up with the RO in question) because unless this is the story’s explicit topic, it runs a risk of derailing what’s supposed to be the plot into navel-gazing about stuff that’s tangential, at best.
I totally get what you mean! For the Creme de la Creme series, and The Earth Has Teeth, I do the non-defined way of doing it - for me it reflects the “unremarkable” way the cultures approach orientation.
For the other game I’m working on, I do want to give the player the chance to state an orientation explicitly because choosing a non-cis and/or non-straight option makes a difference regarding aspects of the PC’s upbringing and some relationships. I’m hoping to handle it smoothly so it doesn’t feel like a distraction or dragging the pace of things!
The undefined approach works really well in the Crèmeverse. Maybe that’s because I usually randomize the ROs’ genders and go in with the plan in mind to romance a particular character, so my sense of my PC’s orientation grows out of what person I need them to be attracted to. But that can’t be entirely it, as when I’ve played with random genders but a specific PC orientation in mind, I never felt harassed or pressured. Maybe it’s because it really is suited to the setting?
Aw, I’m really glad you didn’t feel harassed by the characters! I think in Creme and Royal Affairs especially, I was pretty cautious about writing NPCs making the first move because of being wary of making PCs feel hassled. Which can go the other way, where players can feel like they’re having to do all the work - so I do try to balance it. I suppose when NPCs do make the first move, I try to make it non-overbearing (though again, that can be affected by gender and a player’s own feelings/experiences that they’re bringing. One person’s charming brief-brush-of-the-hand can be another’s ew-get-away-right-now, etc).
No, your characters have always been extremely respectful - about romance, at least!
And I guess as if I weren’t complicated enough, I prefer the other character make the first move, at least when I play a self-insert.
I appreciate - I hope this is clear - I appreciate what a challenge faces every author, trying to get that balance right so as many people as possible feel included, while stepping on as few toes as possible in the process. There’s no way to please everybody, but I think it’s awesome how much care you all put into this, and how often you’ve managed to make it work better than I would have thought possible.
I’d like to chime in as someone who mostly plays with fixed sexuality. I’ve struggled with internalised homophobia for a looong time and that way, games that just respect my/a character’s sexuality are sort of a safe space. I don’t mind characters not knowing my sexuality and for example flirting with me, what I care about is that the game does and the internal monologue and choices reflect that. I guess I would be irritated and/or hurt (depends on the day haha) if a male character flirts with me and then the option comes “Hey, maybe I am into men after all?”. But that’s strongly rooted in real-life causes, namely nobody believing that I’m not into men ever for over ten years now. There are games where I don’t self-insert and then I would mind much less, but especially with romance-heavy stuff, my sexuality not being questioned is important for my enjoyment.
@AletheiaKnights Ahh, thank you I like poking around with this kind of thing and figuring out where extra details can enrich the protagonist’s story and make them feel grounded in the setting and culture.
@rosenwasser That completely makes sense, thank you for sharing! I totally agree - I want to avoid framing it like the game’s going “you’ve stated that your character’s a gay man but is he sure he’s not into women?”, or vice versa, while giving options for fluidity for people who’d enjoy that kind of story.
More options is good as long as bi-awakening option is clearly worded and there are options to choose PC’s sexual orientation and game acknowledges it and never doubts. For me it would be a welcome change from games like The Honor Bound where PC’s orientation is only a headcanon and I feel that PC is bi-locked, I’m not even sure that existence of gay or straight people is aknowledged in universe. As someone who is tired of “Why can’t you just become bi?“ or “You are lying to yourself, everyone is bi“ in real life, having a game acknowledge PC’s orientation is pleasant.
I get what you mean - orientation isn’t noted much in the Creme setting, though obviously there’s variation, as there is in life. (For what it’s worth, the intention in those games is for attraction to self-expressive but opt-in, rather than me presenting people of all genders as default-attractive to the PC; I realise this may not always land as intended, though.)
Yes, I wouldn’t want to include it as an option unless it’s really clear, and not coming across as “are you really sure you’re not into other genders” when the player doesn’t want to play a path like that.
I’ve become a little bit apprehensive about including the “realisation” options to be honest, but at the same time, there’s a romanceable NPC who can go through a straight->bisexual realisation, and I feel like it’s a bit mean not to let the PC do it too if the player wants to, heh. I’ll have a bit more of a think.
I feel like this might be largely down to how it’s framed – there’s a difference between game posing such question to the player (which may come across as patronizing them) vs having different flavors for MC to express their interest in a character (or lack of such interest) ranging from ones where the MC considers such interest completely normal for them, to coming as a surprise.
I like poking around with this kind of thing and figuring out where extra details can enrich the protagonist’s story and make them feel grounded in the setting and culture.