1281

@Turtler If this is about the communism thing. I’m sorry. I made a comment I didn’t care enough about to back up, and left the discussion hanging.

I guess that Skyrim seems to have actually added back in some choices with consequences (however minor) but Oblivion’s total lack of meaningful choices within the story, and more importantly it’s clear distain for the series’ lore and fans of said lore, followed up by Bethesda’s Fallout 3 and the pre-release information about Skyrim’s gameplay mechanics being even more dumbed down than Oblivion’s just put me off Bethesda games completely. I guess I exaggerated a bit, but from what I’ve heard about it the Civil war faction choice isn’t actually all that meaningful either.

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@Shoelip

No need to apologize about the Communism comment; it didn’t actually register as that much of a problem for me and certainly not something relevant to this. That isn’t always the case on the subject of Communism (I’ve gotten into some pretty heated debates on it in this forum alone), but your comment seemed rather benign and sensible.

I responded with a lengthy counter/refutation, but that’s just what I do; it wasn’t meant as an indictment of your character, and I didn’t mean it to be personal.

My issue was more the way you were talking to MaraJade. I don’t have any particular close bonds with her and i think the issues you brought up (what is linear or nonlinear and what exactly do we want from this game?) was valid, it was just that I thought the way you did it was incendiary and condescending enough it might count as a Rule 4 violation. Considering that and your previous posting history (which seems pretty decent) and that this is one of my favorite threads, I figured it would be better if somebody jumped on it before a mod did. “Warning shot”, if you will.

I hope that explains things. I don’t have any problem with it being carried on. In fact, even though the Elder Scrolls are some of my favorite games, I agree that they are horrendously flawed in the ways you mention them and I think they deserve some more heat. Just watch how you mount your arguments for all of our sakes, ok?

Anyway, peace?

(And sorry for the clutter, @wolfwriter20 !).

1283

@Turtler While Shoelip’s tone was indeed somewhat condescending regarding Mara’s position, he didn’t get personal. There is a distinction between not being entirely respectful of a person’s position in a debate, and disrespecting them personally. Your argument regarding that issue is a stretch.

1284

@P_Tigras

Ironic that this pops up after the actual issue it was about has been resolved.

But suffice it to say, two of the three people who looked at it (myself and MaraJade, the latter of whom was the intended target and recipient) do not agree with your assessment. Especially when the argument that is supposedly a stretch can be proven by a couple of copy pastes, one to the rule book and the others to quotes that reference Mara personally, not her position.

So it was already personal; I was just trying to fix things. There is a difference between critiquing a person’s personal actions (which is not against the rules) and attacking them personally (which is and rightly so). So if constructive criticism can help things turn out for the better, so be it. Even when used against me.

And apparently, it worked out for the best. Talking about this derails the thread further and since it seems like the issue is settled*, it doesn’t seem to have a purpose. So let’s stop it.

* = Anybody who wants to can correct me if I am wrong there.

1285

@Turtler Your proof is facile, and you need to reread Mara’s response. Rudeness and a personal attack are not the same thing.

Anyway, since Shoelip is letting the matter drop, I will do so as well. Feel free to have the last word, but I stand my ground that your response was disproportionate and overly personal.

1286

@P_Tigras

I have read and re-read Mara’s responses, and I would suggest you do the same. Your condemnation of my proof as superficial ironically ignores the couple years of precedent that have been around on the forums.

And as for the final word: the truth is there is no problem with being disproportionate or personal in and of itself. It is just how those things are used; if you use them for ill you deserve to get kicked in the shins, but they can also be used better.

I did not personally attack or insult Shoelip or intend to do so; so even though *I* think I went further than necessary (and I apologize for that to him) it was because I don’t like good forum members getting into bad trouble, and I wanted to get this problem seared shut with the least amount of damage.

And that is why I intend to double post after this to get this thread back onto topic and never speak of it again unless it proves necessary.

1287

@darkstar2101 @Doctor

And any of the other “newcomers”; glad to see more fans taking an interest in this grand old game!

Anyway, the sad fact is that Empowered’s on something of a hiatus-and-borderline-coma now (as a lot of promising games are from time to time), so I wouldn’t put money on updates coming in soon.

That being said, you can still help the project and other forumers. Tell us how you find the game so far. Reviews and constructive criticism are practically our lifeblood, so every little bit helps.

And in any event, I hope you enjoy the game.

(Also: sorry for the mess directly above this. Don’t mind it, because it’s just a rather ugly gap in the thread…).

1288

Sorry to cut in @Turtler, but there is one thing I want to state:

About personal attacks vs attacks on a person’s statements.

The rules are, and always have been simple. Don’t do things that makes someone come around and clean things up. You can discuss the exact wording of whatever rules are posted until you’re blue in the face, but the short is, this is not a democracy. This is a forum first and foremost dedicated to CoG and ChoiceScript. You do things that benefit CoG, it’s good. You do things detrimental to CoG, it’s bad. You do things that have no effect one way or the other, it’s tolerated. Plain and simple. Any spelled our rules are there as a framework to let you know what is generally going to be considered good or bad.

Fighting means someone has to come in and moderate things. That causes tension and reduces the usefulness of the forums in feedback and as a talking ground to further ideas. That’s bad. Discussing ideas in such a way that everyone grows intellectually from the experience, that gives CoG a pool of slightly smarter individuals looking at and discussing the content on the forums. That’s good.

Where exactly is the line between the two? You ask ten people, you’re gonna get at least eleven different answers.

If you feel that something has gotten out of hand, ask a mod to settle it. If you don’t feel that it’s gotten far enough to do that, it’s probable that the mods are going to agree. However, please don’t try to pick apart what exactly is right or wrong to do, it won’t ever improve the situation, and just makes more tension if the mods do feel that it’s gotten out of hand and someone has to actually step in.

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@Reaperoa

Thank you for clarifying and intervening, Reaperoa. However, if you wouldn’t mind I’d like to clarify as well. As you yourself said:

"The rules are, and always have been simple. Don’t do things that makes someone come around and clean things up. "

"If you feel that something has gotten out of hand, ask a mod to settle it. "

Thankfully, we were able to solve it before it got that far. We might not agree on everything and we might not have done it in the best possible way, but the four of us did agree we didn’t want that. So we stopped it before it got out of hand.

By the time you posted we had already cleaned things up and were ready to get back on thread topic.

I tried to do that by asking the relative newcomers to the thread (who asked about the demo) what they had thought. So ultimately, things worked out in the end and we can move on.

… and on that note, you have any snippets you’d like to (re?)add regarding the game?

1290

Wish there was more progress on this game

1291

ROSLYN!!!

1292

@wolfwriter20, as the thread just seems to be attracting unrelated debates and Rule 2 violations (come on Roslyn, you’ve been here long enough to know better), I’m closing it for now. Drop any mod a line to reopen it.

1294

So… Was there ever a demo for this?

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