# December 2023's Writer Support Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Writing and Content\ **Created:** [December 1, 2023, 5:09am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608 "2023-12-01T05:09:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Eiwynn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/eiwynn/32/221334_2.png) [@Eiwynn](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Eiwynn)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 1:04am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/325 "2023-12-18T01:04:42Z")
I have to be careful with my labeling and naming, because I will confuse myself later on, if I am not careful. ---
**Author:** ![rfzhao](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/rfzhao/32/214172_2.png) [@rfzhao](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/rfzhao)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/326 "2023-12-18T01:06:52Z")
Always a concern! I do try to keep track of them in a separate file, but I usually don’t need to. Something about the silly names just sticks in my brain. ---
**Author:** ![S\_Missions](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/s_missions/32/207041_2.png) [@S\_Missions](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/S_Missions)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 1:07am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/327 "2023-12-18T01:07:55Z")
> I tend to think better with pen and paper. Is that inefficient when writing an IF? If anything it’s more efficient, if you break or otherwise injure your non-dominant hand you can still write but it would be difficult to type. ---
**Author:** ![KZV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@KZV](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/KZV)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/328 "2023-12-18T01:12:16Z")
> [@KP\_Everly](#): > > I tend to think better with pen and paper. I think it’s better for writing in general, in many aspects. The ease with which you can edit/delete text on a computer makes it easy to fall into a trap where you’re spending all your time spinning your wheels over the same sentence/paragraph, making small changes and then undoing them over and over. Just wasting a lot of time trying to polish part of an unfinished first draft, which is a great way to ensure that it stays unfinished. You can’t do that as easily when writing by hand, so I find it’s easier to just get a draft out on pen and paper. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lady\_Luck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/the_lady_luck/32/212891_2.png) [@The\_Lady\_Luck](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/The_Lady_Luck)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 5:30am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/329 "2023-12-18T05:30:29Z")
I don’t know how people do it. I keep reading new WIPs, and their demos are stated to be 20k or 30k long, but if I were to write that exact same plot, with the same amount of branching, and optional text, it would be \<5k words. I’m very aware that my own writing tend to be rather concise and bare-bones, but even when I actively try to pad things and write as wordily as I can, I don’t seem to get the same amounts of words that most other people use as standard. > [@KP\_Everly](#): > > because I tend to think better with pen and paper. Is that inefficient when writing an IF? When I was still away from home for hours most days, I used to write my code down with pen on paper, and then bring it home and type it all in. It worked fine for me, and there was something satisfying about filling sheets of paper with code, especially when writing with a red pen, for some reason. I think there’s something about writing by hand engaging a different part of the brain, or something? ---
**Author:** ![LiliArch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/liliarch/32/120749_2.png) [@LiliArch](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/LiliArch)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 5:34am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/330 "2023-12-18T05:34:46Z")
Some writers just _are_ wordier than others. I seem to be unable to shake the habit of writing way too long _sentences_. ---
**Author:** ![Eiwynn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/eiwynn/32/221334_2.png) [@Eiwynn](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Eiwynn)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 5:56am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/331 "2023-12-18T05:56:02Z")
> [@The\_Lady\_Luck](#): > > I keep reading new WIPs, and their demos are stated to be 20k or 30k long, but if I were to write that exact same plot, with the same amount of branching, and optional text, it would be \<5k words. Word count is a fickle statistic that often can be several values at the same time. I can write the same chapter word for word when read, and have it either come out to be 10,000 words or 20,000 words written. How, you ask? The different use of coding. Besides that, many cultures use more “purple prose” than others and what seems “dry and lifeless” to some may be “just right” and visa versa. In my experience, there is no real value you can slap on a person’s IF writing that is measured by word count alone. * * * * * * > [@KP\_Everly](#): > > I haven’t implemented any choices that could affect the story yet because I tend to think better with pen and paper. Is that inefficient when writing an IF? Each of us has quirks and foibles when we write, and there is no “one way” of doing so. I used to write in a program called Scrivener, a powerful writer-specific program, but as time went on my habits have changed. Now I write my IF in an IDE environment, and have many reasons for doing so, but none of them are “must use” reasons. If you have not yet checked out CSIDE IDE, I would recommend doing so. It may or may not be the correct tool for you, but you won’t really know without exploring it. It has a tutorial in it if needed as well. > [@KP\_Everly](#): > > Im just stuck and a little intimidated I suppose at this big undertaking. You are not alone! Even after working on my Patchwerks project for over a year, I still feel it is a huge undertaking. I am sure others who participate in the support threads will tell you the same thing. Have you read the article I linked above (in the first post) … I think you would find it very useful. > **[June 2023: Work Ethic and Self-Care](https://cataphrak.com/patreon-content/writing-and-worldbuilding/june-2023-work-ethic-and-self-care/)** > > I’m going to start off by making a statement which might be a bit controversial: namely that it is far easier and far less important to write well than it is to write consistently. Ultimately… This is all about writing consistently, and knowing how to pace yourself in a long-term project like an IF. There are other helpful articles available if you desire to read things to help you succeed. And I think you made a big step forward by making your post in this thread! . 💞 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lady\_Luck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/the_lady_luck/32/212891_2.png) [@The\_Lady\_Luck](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/The_Lady_Luck)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 11:47am UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/332 "2023-12-18T11:47:26Z")
> [@Eiwynn](#): > > I can write the same chapter word for word when read, and have it either come out to be 10,000 words or 20,000 words written. How, you ask? The different use of coding. That’s true. Back in the days, when I did a lot more code-diving of WIPs, I do remember seeing people repeating pretty big chunks of text multiple times, for only minor changes. That will pad the word count significantly as opposed to more ‘efficient’ coding and use of multireplace. > [@LiliArch](#): > > Some writers just _are_ wordier than others. I seem to be unable to shake the habit of writing way too long _sentences_. Please teach me the verbose ways. I find it much easier to cut words and make things more efficient, than to add embellishments. I have often thought of teaming up with another writer, who writes more words. then they could focus on writing, and I could focus more on coding, outlining, and editing, and we could support each other. But it hasn’t worked out the times I tried, and I don’t have the health and energy to try anymore. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lady\_Luck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/the_lady_luck/32/212891_2.png) [@The\_Lady\_Luck](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/The_Lady_Luck)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 12:41pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/333 "2023-12-18T12:41:55Z")
My interest is so fickle, recently. Now I kinda want to abandon my new project, and instead adapt a piece of classic gothic literature, or an old fairytale, into an erotic IF. The muses are mercurial creatures, and I am still scatterbrained from having covid. ---
**Author:** ![LiliArch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/liliarch/32/120749_2.png) [@LiliArch](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/LiliArch)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/334 "2023-12-18T16:33:22Z")
> [@The\_Lady\_Luck](#): > > Please teach me the verbose ways. I find it much easier to cut words and make things more efficient, than to add embellishments. I will not. Firstly, I’m not verbose _per se_ - I could totally use _more_ words - I just write way too long and complex _sentences_ (while the wordcount total still stays too low to my liking) which I then need to actively edit and simplify. It’s a flaw, not a benefit, at least if my professor is to be believed. (Which, in case of my Master’s, kinda _is_.) Writing tired sometimes increases my verboseness though? I turn kinda rambly then. ---
**Author:** ![vera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/vera/32/272531_2.png) [@vera](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/vera)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/335 "2023-12-18T16:36:29Z")
You can also try to write unique texts depending on previous variables in their entirety, not as \*if whatever=whenever. This seems to work wonders for word count and lagginess of your IDE or Google Document. I still can’t understand why mine is so bloody laggy. I have more than enough resources for running Google Docs. ---
**Author:** ![LiliArch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/liliarch/32/120749_2.png) [@LiliArch](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/LiliArch)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/336 "2023-12-18T16:39:39Z")
Sure, but I prefer to get the single-playthrough-length wordcount as a baseline, and that naturally doesn’t have variants (or code, for that matter). (Unless I misunderstood something you said, which is possible, since I just woke up from a nap and didn’t bother to put my glasses on.) ---
**Author:** ![vera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/vera/32/272531_2.png) [@vera](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/vera)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 5:04pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/337 "2023-12-18T17:04:48Z")
I’ve meant it kinda-sorta like this… You can do variations either like that: \*if whatever=whenever words words words words \*if whatever=not\_whenever words words words Or like that: \*if whatever=whenever \*goto whenever\_label \*if whatever=not\_whenever \*goto not\_whenever \*label whenever\_label words words words \*label \*not\_whenever words words words It seems the latter is more useful for padding out a wordcount. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lady\_Luck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/the_lady_luck/32/212891_2.png) [@The\_Lady\_Luck](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/The_Lady_Luck)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 5:05pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/338 "2023-12-18T17:05:26Z")
That does sound pretty frustrating. And yeah, I have noticed that the rare times I’m gotten a lot written in a short time, was between 2am and 4am, on nights where I couldn’t sleep. It’s like a _specific_ state of tiredness makes the internal editor actually switch off. Some ways I have noticed that other people seems to get more prose into their plot: - Descriptions. Long ones. - Lore dumps, either in the beginning of a scene, or formatted as being able to ask some character a bunch of questions, that each have a long detailed answer. - Long stretches of other characters doing stuff, without much input from the PC. I think it’s more difficult to notice a lot of text passing by, when the author manages to make it feel engaging and well-paced. ---
**Author:** ![rfzhao](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/rfzhao/32/214172_2.png) [@rfzhao](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/rfzhao)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/339 "2023-12-18T17:11:07Z")
> [@LiliArch](#): > > Sure, but I prefer to get the single-playthrough-length wordcount as a baseline Question: how _do_ people find average playthrough wordcounts? Right now my WIP has a ton of variable-dependent dialogue, which is definitely inflating my CSIDE wordcount beyond what an average player will see. Is it just a matter of playing through a path and manually counting? ---
**Author:** ![LiliArch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/liliarch/32/120749_2.png) [@LiliArch](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/LiliArch)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/340 "2023-12-18T17:24:18Z")
> [@vera](#): > > I’ve meant it kinda-sorta like this… Ah, I see now (well, or not. Still without my glasses). But that means my point stands - coding efficiency matters only when you _have_ code. (I’d personally use goto if the same chunk of text repeats, and _not_ use goto if it doesn’t.) > [@The\_Lady\_Luck](#): > > It’s like a _specific_ state of tiredness makes the internal editor actually switch off. Right, that’s the one I meant. I call it as the logical part of my brain being asleep (so the creative part takes over). Not viable on long term, sadly. > [@The\_Lady\_Luck](#): > > Some ways I have noticed that other people seems to get more prose into their plot: None of which sound worth emulating to me (especially if it doesn’t come naturally), unless you’re not writing IF, in which case the last one is fine. > [@rfzhao](#): > > Question: how _do_ people find average playthrough wordcounts? I mean, I do it by writing a single playthrough first. ---
**Author:** ![HarrisPS](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/harrisps/32/240120_2.png) [@HarrisPS](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/HarrisPS)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/341 "2023-12-18T17:47:18Z")
> [@rfzhao](#): > > Question: how _do_ people find average playthrough wordcounts? Right now my WIP has a ton of variable-dependent dialogue, which is definitely inflating my CSIDE wordcount beyond what an average player will see. Is it just a matter of playing through a path and manually counting? If you run RandomTest and choose the “show full text” option, it’ll display the total amount of text generated. Divide that number by the number of times you’ve run the test to get an average. ---
**Author:** ![Jacic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/jacic/32/7061_2.png) [@Jacic](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Jacic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 9:29pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/342 "2023-12-18T21:29:06Z")
> [@HannahPS](#): > > If you run RandomTest and choose the “show full text” option I’ve been having trouble with that for a while and just get a blank screen if I tick full text. (It’s actually kind of annoying for bugtesting as well as not being able to get a feel for playthrough length.) Is it still working for everyone else? I thought it was just my computer, but was doing the same thing on another I tried also. ---
**Author:** ![HarrisPS](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/harrisps/32/240120_2.png) [@HarrisPS](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/HarrisPS)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/343 "2023-12-18T22:57:03Z")
I started having trouble with that a while back, I think it was around when we started having to “upload” the files in order to get the browser to run it. I do it though the run-randomtest file and get it to put the output into randomtest-output.txt when dealing with a particularly nasty bug or difficulty balancing. ---
**Author:** ![Eiwynn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/choiceofgames/user_avatar/forum.choiceofgames.com/eiwynn/32/221334_2.png) [@Eiwynn](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/u/Eiwynn)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608/344 "2023-12-18T23:01:26Z")
> [@Jacic](#): > > I’ve been having trouble with that for a while and just get a blank screen if I tick full text. I also found if you click “automatically scroll to the bottom” it will complete the test and then you can manually scroll through the text, once the test is done. Ultimately, exporting the text to a .txt file (as suggested by Hannah) is the most workable thing for editing/reviewing and balancing. [Previous page](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608.md?page=16) [Next page](https://forum.choiceofgames.com/t/december-2023s-writer-support-thread/145608.md?page=18)