Sometimes, this option just doesn’t allow the flexibility needed in the future. In this particular case, a retcon of the mechanics I feel is warranted to allow @Eric_Moser the ability to evolve the story into the third installment (and perhaps later)
One of the hardest things to do as a developer is to balance mechanics for the long run - unless you keep the future firmly in mind while making the various systems you may find yourself out-growing what you built. Nothing against Eric’s skill in book one but I think his ideas have expanded and become more complicated with where he wants to take this story and as a result a retcon of the mechanics is understandable.
This type of issue happens to all of us - if you want an example in the AAA game market, look no further then Blizzard’s WoW franchise.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding something? (And this is a genuine question, not trying to be sarcastic or judgmental or anything, I feel like you’re reading the situation differently than I am and if I’m reading something incorrectly then I want to be corrected.)
I don’t understand how a stat board wipe would allow for more flexibility? Like, in the first game you can do fine even if you don’t train your “main” stats, and I really liked that. But then just having set in stone new stats for each route after a game (potentially two) of developing your character’s strengths isn’t really a mechanic retcon, it’s a character skill reset, which–and maybe I’m wrong, I’m not the one coding or writing the game–feels like it wouldn’t really add flexibility, but unnecessary rigidity. Especially for the people who aren’t keeping up with these developments and won’t know exactly what class goes with what route (or RPers who don’t pick classes and routes based on stats so much as the character their developing) who might end up pushed into a character build they weren’t expecting or won’t enjoy. And if they’re attached to the stats they’ve built up themselves, there isn’t really a route that’s just “beef up everything about myself” (understandably, since that’s vague and uninteresting), they have to pick one of the three, that don’t spell out within the text that they’re coming with a stat reset or what that stat reset will be. It’s better than picking a new build blind, but not by all that much, and not clear that they’re going to end up picking a new build.
Again, I don’t think this would break the game or kill my enjoyment or anything, but I do think it just seems kind of frustrating and takes away some of the meaning of the character you’ve built up and worked on before the end of the route.
I think we are approaching the issue from different perspectives more then misreading or “reading things wrong”. For the most part, we are closer in agreement then it may seem at first read.
Eric said that no matter the route we choose, we will be able to succeed - so the concern about being pushed into a build that wouldn’t be enjoyed should be moot.
Yet, I completely understand the optics of what you are saying - the whole frustration aspect of the reader. I’ve been arguing with developers for years in many games regarding mechanic changes just for the sake of it.
The attachment to the old is unfortunate but it is something I’ve yet to see an ideal solution to. And this leads me to the following:
From the perspective of the developer, the rigidity becomes much harder to break and the more you feel tied to faulty or just outgrown mechanics the longer you avoid evolving them. There are changes you can make to the old structure and on the face of it, and in isolation, they may seem to work but when you make the changes live, you see unintended consequences and things change in areas that then call for more adjustments … and it becomes a self-feeding feedback cycle.
In my humble opinion - and it is that of a person looking from the outside but one that is informed and educated in developing mechanics that last years of gammeplay - I think the structure presented in installment one has been exploited as far as it can be without causing more issues then solving.
Again, this is purely from a developer perspective -
From a reader’s perspective, I totally get you. As a reader, wishing for the power of flight in installment one and then ending up with some “nulifier power” in installment 3 is a total disappointment and is totally letting the purist fan down.
From a developer’s perspective, realizing you just quadrupled your writing and double-downed your coding, staying with the original powers of flight, lasers, invisibility, etc is huge and if you can find a way to streamline development and writing, you want to do so.
In this particular case, I see the developer’s perspective outweighing the reader’s. For various reasons.
Again, no disrespect intended to you, Eric or any other individual here and as I said, I am an outsider to Eric’s project so I may be off-kilter and if I am, I’m sure I’ll be trounced on soon enough.
I see your perspective and see where you’re coming from–my issue is that from my understanding of the code and mechanics, I don’t see how resetting the stats would simplify the process. Maybe you’re right, I’m not a coder or a writer and there might be something I’m missing that would make a stat reset the best course of action.
I think I’ve stated my perspective overall as a reader pretty clearly, so won’t just rehash what I’ve already argued, but do want to respond to something specifically–
Success and enjoyment are not synonymous. I assume going through installment 3 relying on stats that weren’t boosted to the level of other stats will end up something like the Wyvern fight–where what you’re doing fails, and you get hurt, but through circumstances you end up more or less alright and more or less winning anyway. So, I’m not thinking that I’ll be forced into using stats I didn’t mean to get in order to get a good ending–I know that isn’t a concern, and I know that Eric wants everyone to get the kind of ending they hoped for with his game. But I feel like by resetting stats, knocking out any development the player worked with, it could remove some of the satisfaction of the fight scenes, if you’re failing all the stat checks. Or, if the stat checks are low enough that no matter what you do you’ll succeed, or just removing stat checks altogether–well, I wouldn’t necessarily have a problem with that since I’mm not much of a meta gamer, but it might make stats themselves feel unnecessary, or remove enjoyment for the people who do take satisfaction from making a character that gets through stat checks.
that’s a bit of a text wall, so tl;dr getting to a good ending doesn’t necessarily mean that the player will enjoy the process of getting there
I got an idea. What if the stench armor is like customizable as in you can put enhancements on the armor like you can put your equipment from your previous archetype on the armor like the thermal goggles for hmm stat or the wrist launcher
for whoosh stat. That would be awesome (P.S. I’m new here and sorry for my english)
Why not just increase a characters current stats by whatever number (5? 10?) rather than overwriting them? like if my character had 8 whoosh and 4 thud and then had the set increase make their thud 20 and whoosh 15 (or something similar) they would be very confused as theyre a very quick/evasive kind of hero. Or we could choose which stats we could train? Like make it a sort of “which stats do you want to work on?” and you kinda ‘rate’ which stats from most to least you want to increase. The one you would want to increase most your character would train very often, but the one you least want to increase would be trained once or twice but fall by the wayside in favor of the other stats.
There could also be like a little hint dialogue thats like “Since you are Dr. Stench/a tactician/a zenith, it seems wise to focus on [insert the two stats here]. However, you could probably train in the other stats and be just as effective.”
@Skystalker If the armor is the same as the Dr. Stench chibi, then there’s no place for that kind of stuff:
-Zap, Thud, Shhh: those are the main stats so the stuff is already the best.
-Hmm: if my memory’s correct, there’s a gaz mask on the armor so the goggles/listening device would be hard to include. For the hacking kit, it’s simply out of character.
-Pow: once more, out of character.
-Whoosh: the armor looks pretty heavy, so the equipment is not adapted.
@illuminato It would waaaaay too hard to code. I mean doing this means you have to find a way to adapt each choice to every combinaison.
Example: you follow the Dr. Stench path with an Acrobat or a Detective. You want to shoot an enemy. Your max zap (currently) would be 5/6 plus… let’s say 10 so 15/16. Since Eric said every class would succeed on every route, that means you’d need at least 10 zap to success (since no one will build an Acrobat or a Detective specialized in Zap).
On the other hand, if you play Soldier or Sharpshooter, your stats would be way higher than that. So that would mean you have to double the coding amount for it to be fair.
However if you fix stats, this would be fair to everyone.
Well because of my work situation, I haven’t had time to write in the last 2 days, and today doesn’t look great either. And I have little time for forum-browsing either. Hence, I won’t be able to even read most posts, so even if helpful feedback is given, I won’t have an opportunity to review it.
And seriously if I manage to snag a hour lunch once in a while over these next few weeks, I should probably spend that time jotting down scene notes as opposed to posting on here. So it’s best to close the thread for a bit until things settle down on my end. Hopefully it won’t be long. I’ll post the update when the thread is reopened.
I figured I would resurrect this thread with an update…
I sent in the game files to HG last month. CCH2 is being copyedited. I am very excited about this, as I didn’t get this service for Part 1.
I am transitioning to a new website. Check out http://fictionbyericmoser.com. I am partnering with a very talented forum member to create new content for the website that I think folks will enjoy!
And I have a new MailChimp sign up form for my Reader Appreciation Group for story updates, exclusive offers, etc. I plan to offer another FREE short story later this year that will ONLY be available to this group.
If you have signed up by emailing me in the past few weeks at eric at fictionbyericmoser dot com, then I manually added you to this Group. That’s only 19 people. BUT if you signed up longer ago, using the communitycollegehero email, I am NOT manually adding you because I want to make sure you still want to get the messages.
On a more serious note, I wished to apologize for my lack of feedback during the beta. The beginning of college was pretty hard (especially the administration) and by the time I remembered it, it was over. And with everything I had to do, I forgot to send proper excuses until now.
No worries! I recoginize that life happens to folks. Testing a game is pretty low on the priority list when school, work, or family issues demand our attention. I always try to recruit more testers than are needed, to account for attrition.
Woohoo, can’t wait!! Now, which save file to pick back up first. The one with Dirty Girl as a RO and I went down her dark path, or whats her name, the one with the hair (been so long I forget her name lol) as a RO? Choices, choices.
Yup, that’s her name. Funny I remember her real name but not her hero name. Yeah, a bit too goody goody and the like, I like DG better by far. I need to try the other girls but never got around to it. Hopefully we can romance Stoic in part 2.
I don’t know about DG, she seemed cool at the start but her romance scene turned me off. I’d rather not become an ecstasy addict or something
I think Stoic is actually the best of the female characters (excluding Origami). Uni is kinda meh too, I wouldn’t want to romance someone who bailed on you when you offered them to split the date costs.
Dunno, but I kept the piece on some of my playthroughs. I hope so.
I had two MCs for her, one where I fell with her, one where I got her to clean up (I think) or at least didn’t partake myself. Sucks about Uni, good thing I didn’t seek her out. I like Stoic too, I liked getting her to come out of her shell bit by bit, especially if you, Stoic and WOMBAT beat the football team and choose the right options throughout the 1st one and the demo. Though if she is a RO, I wonder if revealing yourself to the others will have a bad effect with her, seeing as she didn’t really approve of doing that.