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My verdict is that only some objects that are availible to the PC and some guards (The public is too poor to buy them) will have clockpunk engineered in them.
NOW STOP ARGUING!

102

Thaaaaaaank you. I was so tired of arguing

103

No sweat. I really like people expressing their opinions but there is a point where you say,“Ya. No mas.”

104

dead??

105

no

106

Maybe…

107

You know, I saw this on the Google Play/Android market the other day:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=au.com.tinmangames.gamebook1android&hl=en

Maybe you could gather some inspiration from it?

108

@Revanrulesrussia Hope not, got excited to see someone doing a game like this

109

Can someone post the link to the other thread? I can’t find it :confused:

110

@cutiali What other thread?

111
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Alright, I’m not going to do a review in depth here, since I’ve already got a few other commitments I am honor bound to do first. However, there are a few things I feel safe asking- nay, Demanding- here.

  1. Don’t screw around with us and make us look through this other thread. Either post an easily findable link to it *On this Thread* or pack up and go home. PERIOD. It’s a disservice to the audience. Rough ideas and other problems we can deal with, but this inconvenience is a disservice to the game, yourself, and especially to your audience.

  2. Fix the gender choice so that female doesn’t crash out.

  3. For future reference, CLEARLY MARK all options that crash out, prematurely enfd things, or what have you. Again, it makes it a lot easier for we testers.

  4. Do *something* to make this stand out, because right now- being completely honest- this reads like an amateur Assassin’s Creed II fanfic, and not a good one at that. I don’t know how you’re going to do it (and I have a few random thoughts that might stand out) but it’s absolutely necessary.

Finally, I have one more thing. A suggestion, rather than a demand like the others: you might have heard of Dishonored, and its’ “Neutralization” mechanic, and while it’s not my cuppa tea personally (give me some bladework any day) I think you might find it worth considering for this one, because something like it might maximize the RPing ability.

I’ll get a full overview later, but 1-4 (and ESPECIALLY 1) were the problems that really bugged the eff out of me and are in imminent need of fixing.

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@Turtler, before you spend any more time and spleen on this thread, you should be aware that @revanrulesrussia isn’t around right now to respond to your list of demands – he’s on military deployment, if I recall correctly. And even before he left, he’d stated that he was letting this game slide while he worked on another vigilante story.

Which is why the other thread on “Assassin” got closed – and why I’ll shortly be closing this one. We’ll reopen them if @Revanrulesrussia shows up again and asks us to.

Speaking as a fellow forum member, not as a mod… you might want to think about whether phrasing your feedback in the form of demands is likely to accomplish much. It’s good to let an author know if they’re doing something irritating. But I’d have thought that starting with e.g. “For what it’s worth, it bugged the eff out of me when…” would be more likely to get them to make changes, rather than getting them to defensively mount their own high horse.

And if you’ve got nothing good or encouraging to say about a game, you might want to consider the Thumper response. That’s not a forum rule, of course! But just keep in mind we’ve got a lot of people trying to write games for the first time, many of them young. Plenty of games will probably read like low-grade fanfic, or totally predictable melodrama, or what have you… because that’s often what we start writing before we have the confidence and experience to write something else. And what good does it do anyone to be blasted for lack of confidence, experience, or knowledge?

I’d only call someone on such deep flaws if I were sure they were ready to write higher-quality stuff – and if I were sure of that, presumably I could point to something they were doing well, so my harsh feedback could be framed in an encouraging way, not 100% bleak.

Anyway, I don’t want to abuse my thread-closing power to get the last word, so if you want to respond, go ahead – and I’ll close the thread after. :slight_smile:

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@Havenstone I thank you for the reply, and my apologies if I came off as rude. I didn’t mean to, and I actually intended to drop a line about the potential and what have you. It certainly does that, and that’s why I included the “also, just in case you’re curious here” bit. Nothing personal against RRR, and the fact that he’s doing this at all is incredible (and certainly more than I have). The fact that he’s put it on hold to serve a yet higher cause is even more so. However, that just makes the importance of feedback more important than ever. He deserves the best criticism and feedback the forum can give, and I intend to give it to him hard and fast.

But really, I feel that with someone asking for honest feedback, they deserve honesty. How in God’s name should you pull punches when it’s just doing a disservice to RRR and the game? That’s why I feel obliged to be as straightforward and detailed as I can. I give praise when I see something worth praising, I give suggestions if they come to mind, and I criticize as constructively albeit mercilessly as I can. What matters is content first. Like the games themselves. Am I supposed to hold myself to a lower standard than I would RRR? Or vice versa?

That’s precisely why I do this. If I had anything against RRR or wanted to tear him down, I damn well would do so (and probably get banned in the process…but ah well). I’m not. I’m just trying to help, even though it’s more of a drive-by than anything else because I feel obliged to do Rise of the Pirate, Heal, and Wizard’s Life first because it’s not fair to them. So I just shot off a list of “quick fixes” to start things off, and I listed them as demands because the game itself and the audience demand quality. There’s no use phrasing it as anything else, and it certainly doesn’t help RRR any to phrase it otherwise. They’re relatively easy to do (relatively, and if need be with the aid of a beta), and they will go a long ways to helping matters.

Finally, I must say that I’m all too aware of how many people get their start writing embarrassing, cliched, or what have you things. I know because I am one of them, and I still have ugly memories and flashbacks to tripey writing and work I did from years ago (like a school play).

That, however, is why I believe- to be blunt- that your response here is rude *and* uncalled for. The “Thumper rule” is not valid in this case. It would be if I were uncritically and callously ripping everything down, but I am not. Using it as an excuse to tear out the “critical” part of “critical evaluation” or the “criticism” part of “constructive criticism”'s not doing anyone any favors.

I’m not blasting him for lack of experience/confidence/knowledge. I’m blasting the *Game* for concrete problems with it which may stem from said lack of e/c/k. The former’s just being mean. The latter’s one of the ways you can help *remedy* the lack of e/c/k amongst others.

What I do find really galling, Havenstone, is that you presume that you’re helping RRR or anyone else by not calling them on “deep flaws” unless you’re sure they’re ready to write deeper or more quality work. That is your opinion and you are welcome to it, but you should keep in mind that not everyone subscribes to such a mode of thought.

That being said, how you phrased it here is really incredible.

  1. How is that *not* insulting RRR by extension? You’re basically saying that he’s incapable of even trying, and doing it on one of his threads, in public. I don’t know about you, but I’d view that as sapping morale. It certainly would to me, to have one of my supposed defenders (doing what looks like) going behind my back like that, especially after asking and I quote: And what good does it do anyone to be blasted for lack of confidence, experience, or knowledge?

And yet you’re saying how he lacks the confidence/experience/knowledge to deal with critical responses, and that is why you’re holding back on a great deal of feedback because he’s not ready or what have you. Say what you will about my response, but I never said anything about RRR himself: my cannonballs were directed firmly and squarely at the game itself.

And more importantly…

  1. Just because he’s not ready to operate on that level *alone* (which I’m not so sure of) doesn’t mean he can’t do it with help. Like I said, I’ve come from the same place he and all of us have: amateur, badly written, overwrought fan works. I have firsthand experience with just how much a good editor or beta can polish up a piece and improve someone’s game. That’s why I’d be the first one to beta. Heck, I’d be happy to give advice on that. Heck, I’d be happy to rewrite a copy of it just so that he can have what he has as sharply written as possible, so he can put the best foot forward for what he’s got so far.

I’m no flamer, for one, and I don’t criticize unless I am willing to help if given the chance. That is the reason I feel confident that my "list of demands’ would accomplish much is because I am willing and able to take an active and constructive role, if he so desires. I’m not a scumbag who shoots and runs; I’m willing to stick with this as it goes and give the very best assistance I can. Heck, I’d be willing to re-write everything that’s been posted in the game up through now (or help him do so) so that he can start building the game from the solidest foundation possible, and can proceed with the best foot forward.

So no, Havenstone, I appreciate your concern and the criticism, but I both respectfully disagree with your stance, and feel *deeply* insulted at your insinuations. In particular, conflating “telling it as it is, warts and all, and giving some advice on wart removal” with “not being nice.” We’re all trying to work towards the same aim here: helping RRR and others like him write the best stories and games they possibly can, it’s just a legitimate difference of philosophy over “how”. That’s why I presume good intentions until proven otherwise. The fact that you seem inclined to presume less generously because someone doesn’t subscribe to your viewpoint is…troubling in my opinion.

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Again, sorry if I came off as too harsh or went to far. I want to make absolutely clear that I have nothing but good will for RRR, this game, and yourself, even given differences of opinion and possible heated moments. I hope this project can be seen through to success, and I’m happy to do what I can (or at least what I think I can) to tip the scales in its’ favor, as I’m sure everyone else would.

116

@Turtler, no heat from me, and I’m sorry to have left you feeling deeply insulted. Heavens, I don’t know where “flamer” or “scumbag” came into it. No such insinuation remotely intended. :slight_smile:

I’ve never actually read any of RRR’s work myself. My Thumper ref was responding solely to your summary: “Do *something* to make this stand out, because right now- being completely honest- this reads like an amateur Assassin’s Creed II fanfic, and not a good one at that.”

That’s definitely a punch, and a damned hard one – but I wasn’t suggesting that you pull it. Honesty’s good, insincerity’s bad. I’m saying that when you blast an author’s work that hard, if you’ve got any (sincere!) positive feedback, that’s the ideal time to add it in as well. Give them some reason to keep living, and writing. :slight_smile:

And here’s what I meant by the Bambi quote. If all you’ve got is punches… if you thought a game really was that bad, and there’s no honest encouragement you can offer to the author… then I’d suggest it’s most helpful to that author if you say nothing at all, rather than offering an honest but devastating takedown. (Note: I didn’t mean to imply that was necessarily the case with RRR’s game, and apologize to him for leaving that interpretation wide open. I was hoping there were elements you’d praise in his work as well).

Don’t pull the punch (i.e. give insincere feedback)… just walk away. Not because it would be “flaming” or mean or callous to give the honest, 0% positive feedback, but because it would likely be unhelpful, however good the intention.

I’ve got a “humility file” of stuff I’ve written through the years, thinking it was good, and realizing later that it really wasn’t. But it was the best I could do at the time. I’m very glad that it wasn’t until I was in my early 20s that I started getting devastating reviews of some of my teenage stuff. If I’d gotten those reviews when I was 14, I would have been incredibly discouraged, because I simply didn’t know how to write anything better. For it to be good, I would have needed more than an editor, because the flaws were pretty fundamental… and personally, I would have only been more discouraged if my reviewer had offered to write it better for me. I wanted the work to be my own.

As it happens, I started getting the harsh reviews at a point when I could write better. At that point, the brutal truth about my work to date (and a critical editor) became very helpful for me. But by then, the brutal-truthers could also point to the clear emerging strengths in my writing, which kept me going.

So yes, I’m entirely comfortable holding writers to a lower standard than myself, if I think they’re probably writing at or close to the limit of their current ability. That’s where I’m coming from. I’m aware that not everyone agrees, and that’s fine.

And please, where we disagree, I don’t question your good intentions. Sure, to me it still comes across as slightly rude for a reviewer to “demand” things of an author. I’d have thought that the invitation to review their work doesn’t give me any rights to do more than “propose” or “suggest” – even if what I “suggest” is that they need to fix some fundamental flaws before it’ll be any good at all.

But I don’t mean that as an accusation of intentional rudeness – there’s no comparison between you and this actual example! – and I’m cheerfully aware that reasonable people disagree on issues of word choice like this. I was recently called out for rudeness myself in a spirited exchange with Drazen, and I disagreed, but was grateful for the feedback. I offer my own feedback in that spirit. So hopefully that’s less troubling?

117

Sorry but I don’t think such a debate should be posted all over revanrulesrussia wall, probably more suited through PM or on a new page labeled “is hash(direct) feed back better then no feed back” then everyone could have a say. Also the page has been inactive for awhile, and the author has said this project mite be dead. I myself feel we should be encouraging revanrulesrussia to get back to writing it before pointing out possible improvements, on that note @Havenstone, I think you should close the page till revanrulesrussia gets back.