@idonotlikeusernames Cleon the Cleaver! (I hope somebody gets this reference)
So, I just finished a playthrough:
Juan Jose Cuevas the Eclect
Epithets
Called by his followers:
Eclect of the Angels
Status: Aristocrat
Self-described Theurge and self-taught dabbler in the arcane arts
Anarchy: 28
Ruthless: 25% Compassionate: 75%
Skeptical: 20% Devout: 80%
National: 19% Cosmopolitan: 81%
Charisma: 1
Combat: 0
Intellect: 2
Wealth: 3
Followers: 406
Arms: 150
Blood: 3
What do you think? I’m pretty confident in my ability to stop the army that is after us.
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WOW You are a beast! not like me with my 11 maces and 51 rebels. Well done I am sure you would win easily
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That minor GRRM character is just a petty tyrant without any sort of vision however and, as far as I recall, quite dimwitted to boot.
In contrast to that character our mc is also the original leader of the rebellion that overthrew the Thaumatarchy to begin with and he doesn’t have some magical queen with dragons as his original “saviour” as he very much saved himself from a gruesome death by harrowing to begin with and his magic is fully his own. He’s also not fighting the Thaumatarchy so the nobles can ultimately reap all the benefits while he meekly goes back to being a slave.
Also any successor government to the Thaumatarchy established with noble support and the (tacit) acquiescence of the Xthonic faith is likely to be a fully unreconstituted reactionary regime (my mc will quite possibly hate much more than the Hegemony, even if circumstances at the time forced him to be one of its architects) and thus not worthy of the allegiance of any Helot (and yeoman) who fought, bled and sacrificed to overthrow the Karagond Hegemony.
The circumstances involved in fighting and successfully overthrowing the Hegemony likely requires that (the possibility of) it be offered as a fig leaf to unify broader support against the Hegemony, but it will never be what my mc is truly fighting and risking his life for.
Yeah it’s always nice to see how different strategies pan out.
Thanks for that mini guide: I’ll definitely raid the alastor garrison in my next playthrough since it doesn’t raise the anarchy level by much.
As for the Eclect business I did manage that in some of my playthroughs, I just didn’t remember it resulting in lots of armed supporters. But I guess that just means I have to go back and play again 
So I’m curious how do you prefer to deal with the Hector problem?
@Bagelthief
I know a few Finnish feats off hand such as destroying an entire motorized division using motti tactics, the lopsided kill/loss ratios of the Finnish Airforce, something significant about the Mannerheim line (but I never knew what it was), and well Simo Haya. Loss is still a loss, however, which is why I don’t think that was a good counter-example. I was just being pedantic really.
As an off-topic thing, for some reason I’m only competent on certain strategy/tactics games. As much as I like Fire Emblen, I suck at it. That’s also true for every squad to company level tactical game I’ve ever played. Don’t even get started with board games like chess or risk, where any player that knows even just the basics would have no trouble beating me.
Things start to change when we get to battalion level and above with according increases in complexity. I tend to fare decently in tactical games with massed firepower and copious amounts of artillery (an example would be if Fire Emblem where to meet my competencies, it would end up looking a Pike and Shot: Campaigns battle with more artillery than usual). While I haven’t played multiplayer for any Hearts of Iron game yet, I’d rate myself as a support player capable of endlessly annoying the opposition.
If it isn’t too spoilery, what is Karagond army doctrine? I’m assuming they have cavalry of some kind.
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Uh…You do know that he made nobles slaves and the former slaves masters right?
Who doesn’t know of the White Death, eh? Exceptional. Absolutely amazing.
http://static2.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/5371127+_4b760e0502231c5266e8180e330ffada.png
Bless you! I’m surprisingly good at real-time strategy, but I hate it with a passion, and I never really picked up my mum’s skill at Risk, neither. Big things, especially impersonal army things where people are generic units rather than unique, don’t catch my attention for long.
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Yes, but my mc does not really want to be a slave master, as he wants to abolish the abominable practice altogether.
The forced labourers on public infrastructure works under his rule will be criminals and dangerous counterrevolutionaries and all will be convicts, not slaves, convicted after a just and fair trial. That most nobles and their enforcers have committed so much and such heinous crimes that they cannot possibly win said trial…well that’s not really his fault, is it.
He also very much does not want to become a noble as the very concept of the class system and its distinction between nobles and “lesser men” is what he’s ultimately rebelling against. Besides the other nobles would just screw him over anyway in such a case as he will never be accepted as one of them and he knows it, despite whatever worthless title they may attempt to foist on him.
Worse, accepting something that worthless implies he’s willing to play the game by their rules, a game so rigged against him that he cannot possibly “win” by any reasonable definition of the word and again he full well knows that.
What’s even more impressive is that he survived the war albeit with a severe injury but to take out so many hostiles with usually just iron sights definitely is something for marksmen world over to strive to become.
He was a farmer! He used to put snow in his mouth and sit there because it would muffle his breathing! People thought they were being attacked by a team, not one man! Killed more than one guy with a single bullet! Had to be shot in the head to stagger him, and even then killed the enemy and then walked himself back to help! Fell into a coma and woke up the day the war ended! What a legend!
Exactly, and I doubt helots who were instrumental to defeating the Thaumaturchy would then allow a group of nobles to run roughshod over them…especially when they saw to many nobles who, even if they didn’t fight against the rebellion, stayed silent. And even if the MC is able to keep things quiet in their corner, there is still going to be a river of blood as others take out their vengeance.
You are able to do get followers in this process, but you this is where Chapter 1 entries really make a difference. If you want to go for the Cosmpolitan route, the best choice is to go with the following:
[spoiler]This is playing as a noble. Just be aware that if you pick a straight Shayard first name/last name, it will bump up your Nationalism traits (First name give 5 points to Nationalism and I think picking the last name gives 3 points of Nationalism.) Going with Karagon first name/last name doesn’t change the Nationalism/Cosmopolitan value.
The following choices do allow for a Shayard first name/Karagon last name as a noble with Charisma 2, Intellect 1
Note that if you saved everyone, you can still get the Cosmopolitan route with a Shayard first name/Shayard last name, but for some reason it doesn’t work if it is just you and Breden who survived. I think there may be some fractional values in there, but I haven’t looked at the code.
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Choose the Suppression of the folkways
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There will be a window very soon where the jongleur sings a song from Erret, and you pick this choice:
exhilarated, as if half the world had just opened up before you. (Gives 2 points of Cosmopolitan) -
Then pick this from the Halassurq tale:
I was still eager to hear a story from Outside the Wards. (Gives 1 point of Cosmopolitan) -
Pick the divide first, and it should give you a Cosmopolitan trait of 74%
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I choose Zvad as my deputy.
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Choosing to liberate the 4 conties will raise the Cosmopolitan to to 76%
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When speaking with Horion, I choose: I’ll free all the lands currently in Karagon’s thrall, and lead as many as will follow me."
Doing that gives one the Wiend phalangites: 20 warriors.
If you do manage to get the Disbelievers on your side, that will also give you an additional 60 followers. You don’t have to go with the Charisma 2/Kenon route. Trying to say it will have them still arrive…as long as you aren’t a Theurge. However, you may lose a few followers before that point for being a heretic[/spoiler]
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One of the things my mc is in fact counting on for the inevitable second revolution against the “unity” government and why he will refuse to be directly involved with it as it will be a regime deliberately set up to fail and the river of blood you mention will certainly be one of the instruments I’m counting on to undermine it.
Though note that while my mc can’t, for obvious reasons, be seen to encourage this sort of behaviour he also won’t lift a finger to stop or prevent it.
Furthermore, like I said before, the “unity” government will only be established in the first place if my mc needs those few months in order to shore up his position and preparations for the second revolution, if not than we will skip that phase entirely, as is his preferred course of action.
Sorry for the second post, but just saw this after seeing my previous one.
@LtRipley
[spoiler][quote=“LtRipley, post:3812, topic:1601”]
raid the alastor garrison in my next playthrough since it doesn’t raise the anarchy level by much. As for the Eclect business I did manage that in some of my playthroughs, I just didn’t remember it resulting in lots of armed supporters. But I guess that just means I have to go back and play again So I’m curious how do you prefer to deal with the Hector problem?
[/quote]
To answer your Hector question, I admit, I try to kill him, especially if I’m playing as his cousin. Not that you can, for story reasons, but that is just how my character would feel. Attack my people, fine…torture a young girl? I will use your skull as a drinking mug.
The main reason I would go the Sheep route is for the romance options, especially with de Firiac. I admit, I don’t find the Kala/Kalt stuff compelling enough for a romance.
If you want some other breakdown of stuff:
If you do take out the de Merre estate, it will give you 15 extra arms, and accepting their peasants will give you 16 additional people. Combat 2, or Charisma 2 or wielding Theurgy can work here. You definitely need either to follow up yourself (Combat 2), or order them to hold the Ledge.
If you are successful with the Owlscap raid (whether Elery warms up to you with a Cha 2, or Breden as your second in command…or if you have Com 2), will also net you 7 arms.
Successfully raiding the Architelone seems to lose you around 12 fighters, but you gain 30 Arms.
Additional followers will also be affected when you go with this option: Travel through helot camps to spread the word of our rebellion. (all remaining) Charisma plays a role, as well as how many people you have left to do things, and whether Breden is there. I had 67 followers to do stuff, 274 total, and jumped up to 341 followers, an increase of 67 people
If you satisfy the religious choice, you will get the following:
Next comes the descent of the Diakons, twelve of the priests responsible for the spiritual welfare of the helotry.
Your reputation for devotion to the Angels as revealed in the original Shayardene Codex has drawn them to you – and they bring with them forty more helots, all armed with steel maces liberated from a lord’s armory. All of them bow to the ground when you descend to meet them. “Your presence honors us, sister,” the oldest Diakon rasps. “Praise the Angels for sending an Eclect at last!”
And your followers do increase by 52, and Arms by 40.
Also, if you destroy Harrowers, it will raise Anarchy, so if you want de Firiac, that is something to keep an eye on that.
I’m also trying to determine if giving money to the helots, and earning the Open-Handed epithet may give you more followers later as well. If not…well, guess I have 80 Drachem to share.
[/spoiler]
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This is exactly why I haven’t gotten to try the other routes yet, apart from the negotiating with Calea one. He’s just so hateable, it’s hard to resist. 
Thanks for the rest of the breakdown it’s given me ideas for drastically different playthroughs.
If you are looking for some more story elements, especially with Kala/Kalt or Suzane/Simon, then I think you might like the sheep route.
The third option, doubling up security on your muleteams, wasn’t as an interesting…I only explored it to see what it offered.
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How can I do the Kenosis ritual?
This I will put in spoiler tags.
[spoiler]First, it isn’t a ritual in a magical sense, just a religious sense…and it is more of a backlash for the faith presented in game.
- That said, the first thing to realize is that you have to be skeptical. The easiest way is when Breden asks what you loathe about the Hegemony, you reply:
The superstitious nonsense the Ecclesiasts teach to justify the evils of Hegemony.
This doesn’t have to be your first response, but it has to at least be your second.
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You have to be sufficiently Charismatic to pull it off. Charisma of 2 is definitely best. However, you can’t make an enemy of Breden (assuming he is there)…otherwise, if Breden is at odds with you, he can put the kibosh on your movement.
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Additionally, you can’t be a practicing Theurge. If you are…well, then some of your people will figure your a blasphemer.
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The next key juncture is then when Horion and Linos come. If you speak bring Linos back to your camp and speak with him, you may have a couple options near the bottom like:
“Give me one good reason to keep you alive, priest.” if you are threatening to him
Or
He will offer to make you Eclect for your band. With your skepticism, you will then get three choice. The middle one will look like:
I shake my head – but Linos has got me thinking of an alternative. A ritual to free my followers from fear of Angels, Xthonos, and all other phantasms.
The choice below that, will lead you to a screen with another answer which looks like:
I want to lead them in a ritual which will free them from fear of Angels, Xthonos, and all other phantasms.
Both of these choices will allow you to create your belief of Kenosis.
A few more screens in you will then get another 3 choices. The bottom two are good. Avoid the top one which looks like:
“There are no Angels. They’re just one of the lies we’ve been fed.”
Choosing that will make your whole endeavor fail. Your rebels are willing to become skeptics with the right lead, but not atheists.
And that should be enough to get the Kenosis achievement.[/spoiler]
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There is another discontinuity error, though I don’t know if you are aware of it or not.
If you kill take de Firiac prisoner, and then kill Horion/Linos…a later interaction allows you to kill de Firiac.
If you do so, the following pops up in the uprising section, after the message of Horion’s death:
When Simon de Firiac hears about it, he confronts you, aghast. “Kuria! How could you?.. You’ve just ensured that the Archon will send force sufficient to destroy us. With her cousin dead at our hands, she can do no other.”
Also, I came across another segment and have to give kudos to @Havenstone for including it. Others probably already saw it…but if you take de Firiac hostage, and then let Horion/Linos go…well, I loved the interaction there. I won’t spoil it further, but I thought it was a good touch.
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By the way, @Havenstone, I think you mentioned earlier that there was a potential for a Helot main character more in touch with the pre-Shayardene, “Anglisc” sort of culture to bring back the local things and moots in opposition to the landed nobility. Is that just in general something that a character set against the Shayardene nobility would attempt to do, or would that depend on their nationalism/cosmopolitan score? And if so, what does that score actually indicate?
Is nationalism indeed indicating a love of a specific idea of the Shayardene nation as a whole, going beyond the local identity? The same sort of stuff that has led to a lot of regional identities being submerged under the ‘national’ sort of ideal? Or is the nationalism stemming more from a sort of particularism partial to where the MC grew up in which the rest of Shayard is just considerably closer in terms of language and so on than the assortment of smelly foreigners? And for Cosmopolitanism, is everyone intended to be more autonomous and do their own sort of thing separately or is it more focused on bringing everyone into the same sort of cultural community despite their differences?
If you bring up, say, Comrade Stalin, you see that he was a Russified Georgian. At least according to my understanding, his ethnic policies varied dramatically; initially, he promoted each ethnicity in the Soviet Union being educated in their own language, stocking leadership positions in ethnic areas with non-Russians, basically attempting to reverse the Russification that had been done through the Imperial times while still promoting a broader idea of each citizen regardless of any lesser nationality that they belonged to being a sort of New Soviet person. Later on he did about a 180 and started arresting many of those local leaders and promoting the Russian language and culture again, I think under the basis that everyone ought to be able to talk to one another and have an understanding between themselves and that within the Soviet Union the Russian language was clearly by far the most widespread and best mechanism for this.
Between those poles, do we have an idea of what a really ‘Cosmopolitan’ type ruler is going to look try to go for, assuming that the main character is going on with the promotion of already widespread Karagond as the language of inter-ethnic communication? Or do you have something totally different in mind?