Choice of Rebels Part 1 WIP thread

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1. Not sure, I’d have to look at the code. I haven’t noticed if there is an effect.

2. If you do the raid on the noble house in chapter 2, you can spare the noble family or slaughter them. Nobles obviously don’t like it if you kill other nobles.

3. When you scout the tax collector mission in chapter 2, you have the option of a few ways to get the info. One way is to talk to another tax collector (telone) and get him to join.

4. Sabotaging harrowers causes more anarchy, and for the government to crack down on helots as an example.

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As for my XoR mc he was born a slave in a horrible dystopian and oppressive caste-based slave system where any advancement out of the lowest classes is literally prohibited by supposedly “divine decree”. He takes that about as well as can be expected of someone who can actually read and reason (and perform magic now, an ability that is supposedly also restricted by divine favour).
All of this is compounded by the fact that his “masters”, the Keriatou and Hector in particular are some of the most vile, brutal and worthless scum on that planet, making most of his interactions with the supposed “nobility” uniformly negative. Then as the proverbial icing on the cake the only relatively decent “noble” turns out to be a gleefully torturing traitor too, which again confirms all my mc’s negative beliefs about the nobility and practically guarantees he’ll never trust any of them ever again, which isn’t to say he won’t try to use some of them, like Simon for instance, but genuine trust? Never again will he make that mistake of falling for a cute “nobleman’s” pretty face and pretty words.

As the oppressive caste system that forms the bedrock of this society will never let him be anything more than a slave with no rights whatsoever and a future that consists of the most horrifying death imaginable he naturally seeks to tear down the whole rotten shambles of the caste system and the religious claptrap supporting it and build something genuinely new on the ashes or die trying, I suppose.

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So, today in a coincidence, I thought about another way to defeat the Phalangites. By dragging them into the forest and making them fight the rebels on uneven ground, as well as making them fight the rebels on multiple fronts. That way we could sap their morale and make sure they don’t use their full strengh against one target.

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It’s been a long time since I last checked on Choice of Games.

A very. Very long time.

It’s been, what, a year or so since I was last here?

So yeah, one of the very first stuff I wanted to check up on again was Choice of Rebels… And either growing up has changed me or the game has gotten a lot better at making me feel bad.

At this point, I’d just like to mention that because I have been gone for so ling, I won’t even try to read the 3000 posts that came while I was gone (I’m sorry, I’m sixteen. I have a horrible attention span).

I remember a time when surviving the winter was easy, even as a Theurge (which, by the way, still seems to have some problems, like getting the achievement for casting Theurgy for the first time multiple times in a single run, or how a good chunk of people know I’m a Theurge when I haven’t even revealed it yet).

Now-a-days, Chapter two’s winter weeks are a struggle to get through, every week I had to spend desperately scrounging for whatever food I could find (After my first run, I never gave the decision-making responsibilities to Bredan ever again), and trying to make sure I could keep the balance between who was out scouting for better raids, and those who I kept around for actually doing raids (which ultimately lead to praying to RNG that I find a bear in the woods… sigh).

Perhaps the reason it was so hard was because of my stubborn refusal to raid any merchants or nobles (Except in the beginning where I decided to raid the market during the fourth harrowing, three failed runs have taught me some important crap about surviving winters), which, honestly speaking, wasn’t helping group morale. That scene where Pim came crying to me and I had to comfort her, only for her to run off after a few words is possibly the first time I’ve actually questioned to stick to my principles or not.

That is an achievement (in my book) right there, Havenstone ya bastard. Whenever I play a Choice of Game (admittedly I’ve only played demos and WiP’s, the tragedies of being a teen using his parent’s AppStore account) and I have a set character in mind, I stick with it at all costs; to Hell with my damn relationships, if I say my character has principles he refuses to break, he will never, ever break it.

And then there was Pim’s scene. Sweet sorrowful f*ck.

As soon as she ran off, I spent at least a whole thirty minutes questioning my decision not to raid the nobility or the merchants. I was this close to raiding the next merchant caravan.

The new chapter two is different from the old one. The old chapter two was easy, I could get the hang of it after two tries (well, you learn tricks after a few replays…). This felt more like how I think it should’ve been: a bunch of young rebels, new and having barely any experience, barely surviving their first winter, and the young leader desperately trying to keep them together.

I love it. It may not mean much, but this sixteen-year old loves it.

And in case you ask, I haven’t even touched Chapter 3, I’ve been replaying Chapter 2 with my Theurge Noble over and over again for the past three days… Haven’t been satusfied with a good chunk of the results. I want a good relationship with Alaine, but that would require me not raiding the merchants after the Fourth Harrowing, which would mean less mules, less food, less weapons, and a lot more dead people. seriously, the best I’ve done was 62 dead adults and 7 dead children…

Maybe it’s about time I switched to one of the other characters I have in mind (which for some reason are all nobles now…).

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Welcome to hell! :laughing:

I agree, I enjoy having to balance ideals with actually keeping my guys alive. Managing winter survival reminds me a lot of King of Dragon Pass, which is an old computer game (later spruced up and ported to iOS) where you control this barbarian clan and try to grow them to the point that they can form alliances and create a kingdom with their neighbors. I know a ton of work must go into tracking all the variables in XoR, but the mix of management game and RPG is my favorite thing ever. When I get everyone happy with me to the point they name their kids for my MC, it’s a great feeling.

[details=More Chapter two advice for surviving winter]I posted a guide a little bit ago with my approach to winter survival, and I’d love it if anyone else tried it and wrote back with what strategies worked for them.

But you can’t feed and grow your rebellion without angering anyone. If you want to run a low anarchy, no robbery rebellion, you need to keep it small and manageable. This would include half rations and fostering children elsewhere.

You don’t have to raid the market in the initial rebellion after the harrowing. It makes things more difficult but it’s my usual path (hold a trial, don’t loot). I meet with Alaine early, then only raid merchants in the Owlscap (meet Alaine BEFORE you raid Owlscap). When the one guy begs you to leave him half of his stuff, do it. That doesn’t get me any reprimand. You’ll only piss them off if you raid them close to home, like stealing their mules or robbing market towns.

I usually piss off nobles and the religious class ('sup theurge buddy), and while I anger the yeomen by robbing them early on, I repay them for the stolen grain and then in spring I give money to yeomen and helots for a Robin Hood reputation boost. Helots love me, and merchants do too after I rob the Architelone.

Don’t worry too much about your dead rebels, just recruit more. Running a recruiting deficit leads to sad times. Do try to avoid dead kids, that is a fast ticket to low morale no fun zone. If you have enough food and RNGesus blesses you regarding the two theurge raids on the camp, your death rate should be manageable.[/details]

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They have an updated version on Steam as well, though I admit a fondness for the old one. I’m also keeping an eye on the sequel they have in mind (not a direct one, but set in the same world, I believe).

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I try to avoid pissing of the nobles, tbh. I need them to raid the Architelone(?) on week 7 (I do it all the damn time. Can’t do a game without raiding the bitch at least once, it just doesn’t feel right).

As for other things… I’m not sure I want to send kids to other camps. Makes me feel like I abandoned them. Admittedly, they’d survive though so maybe it isn’t…

I’ll have to think it over.

Meanwhile, I’m wondering how hard a Pacifist playthrough of this game would be.
I remember Havenstone mentioning (a long time ago) that he would make one… And he would make it bloody.

A peaceful rebellion would not be a bloodless one. Ironic. But it made sense.

Now that I’ve seen the new chapter two though…

Sweet. F*ck.

That rebellion is going to be a sad one.

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When I said that at that point the merchants would have no choice, I meant that the Hegemony would be gone by then and there would be no viable domestic alternative left. In which case, the merchants would have no rational choice but to accept the rebellion’s policies. My MCs would never tolerate any continuation of the Hegemony’s religion and from what I’ve seen of the nobles, while my MCs would not go out of their way to target innocent nobles, I doubt very many of even the most forward-thinking nobles would help my MCs’ rebellions so the estates of nobles actively opposing the rebellion would be confiscated outright and the estates of nobles merely sitting on the sidelines would be heavily taxed at least. Someone would have to manage properties liberated from nobles and priests and the merchants are the most likely and possibly only candidates. Loyal merchants could be rewarded with rights to operate confiscated estates for certain lengths of time.

I think the posts I’ve read so far regarding changing the conditions for Helots and citing Alexander II of Russia abolishing serfdom overlook a more pertinent and successful precedent. The French Revolution of 1789 abolished feudalism and ultimately the peasants avoided being stuck with repaying the nobles.

I had not previously tried raiding House Keriatou’s sheep flocks after the slaughter of one of the rebellion’s grain runs because I agreed with the assessment that the plan sounded too risky. I finally decided to try it though reasoning Who Dares Wins. I took Simon along and it gave my MC a much better understanding of Simon which in this case means the following. I had initially really disliked Kala/Kalt and figured that Simon being filled with less pathological hatred must surely be preferable. However, hearing Simon’s admission and defense of killing poachers, I’ve decided I prefer Kalt after all and so I next tried bringing Kalt on that same run. Hearing Kalt/Kala’s background certainly made my MC more understanding of Kalt/Kala. I applaud the character development like this. When I can go from profoundly disliking a character on first impression to sympathizing and liking a character once I get to know them, then that is a very well written character.

I’ve been thinking about the factions within the rebellion specifically as shown if the rebellion decides how to handle the coming Hegemony offensive by a moot. I think the MC should have a visible influence score of his or her own which increases a lot for leading every successful fight, increases a little for leading non-fights, and also increases for simply being in charge of the camp when their rations are close to full or morale is already high. I think the deputy should also get influence for being left in charge of the camp when rations are close to full or morale is high. In summary, the current system does not visibly give the MC credit for successfully leading fights or being in charge of the camp when conditions are good. I have not gone through the source code to see if such credit is given behind the scenes, but I do think that the MC should have a visible faction of supporters and that leading successful fights should receive more credit than non-combat missions.

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I can always get my noble’s cousin to give her the info by appealing to the memory of her mother. There are also options to ask your merchant network or, if all else fails, coerce a telone by kidnapping his family. But for me, robbing the noble estate is usually higher priority because :moneybag: . But I play a kind of Robin Hood character. She won’t slaughter people outside of battle, but being responsible for the lives of so many rebel helots has made her open to robbery where she wasn’t initially.

You don’t have to rebel at the Harrowing. So there is a pacifist route in the game, and yeah it’s bloody.

You end up with a much smaller band of rebels, and no children IIRC due to how few people follow you. But it will correspondingly be easier to feed people with hunting only and not anger anyone with robbery.

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Hey, @Sashira, I know that fantasy of the late medieval/early modern Europe variety isn’t your cup of tea, but just to respond to your question about XoR… the game tries to make clear that in its sex-scared, anti-promiscuous society, the chattel class does have greater freedom to sleep around (not having the same consequences from loss of social reputation).

Like many lower classes throughout history, they don’t internalize the code of proper conduct quite as intensely as the upper classes. (The uppermost classes have a similar freedom to disregard it, though for the opposite reasons).

But because in this setting, the lower classes are also routinely slaughtered to fuel blood magic, there’s also a strong social interest in their rate of reproduction. Non-breeders are more likely to be selected for slaughter, whether their childlessness is due to age, barrenness, or sexual orientation.

Hence even in a culture which is otherwise untroubled by same sex relations and actively hostile to the idea that the primary purpose of sex is reproduction, a strong pro-natalist drive for helots has come in through the demands of the blood economy.

As idnlun said in the other thread, some priests have taken that pragmatic idea to its natural conclusion and are slipping into the heresy that the purpose of sex is reproduction – if only for helots.

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And I assume that, like in the early modern West, the obligation to obey social norms is strongest for those in the middle class?

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Absolutely. The petty gentry and merchant classes – who also provide the majority of priests – are intensely concerned about sexual purity and other indicators of non-Xaotic behavior. As you’ll increasingly see if you’re leading a libertine life and rebellion.

I think you’ve caught my vision for it. And I’m glad that the new chapter 2 is having the intended effect on at least a couple of readers!

Thank you! As I said somewhere up there in the thread, I knew this was my chance to turn them (especially Kalt) into more-dimensional characters. Glad it helped.

That’s basically morale and your own charisma. I think I’m going to keep all those influence scores invisible, but I’ll chew over your suggestion and see if it grows on me. Thanks!

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And my gay mc’s already quite low opinions of the priests and their sham of a religion that props up the Hegemony with its rigid caste system is unlikely to have been helped by the fact that the Ecclesiast he has known for most of his life, Zebed seems to have been likely to be one of the more reactionary ones who was likely also one of those to espouse the new “heresy” that it is against helot telos to be gay or feel any same-sex attraction.

Of course we don’t know what the “good” version of that religion, as in the so-called Shayardene Codex has to say on things like homosexuality and slavery as you have so far kept that information hidden from both us players and our characters, which of course gives me the impression that the Shayardene Codex may have more nasty surprises in store for us.
And that is aside from the fact that it is likely to be less progressive sexually, if only due to the hinted at importance of bloodlines (the Laconniers in particular being ostensibly dedicated specifically to preserving the former royal bloodline instead of the family), instead of having the central aspect of family and dynasty be passing on the family name, as it seems to be now under the Karagond system.
Which would make my gay mc weary of the Shayardene Codex’s version of the religion even if he wasn’t already hostile to it due to a variety of other reasons. Being required to have an Empress, or at least a wife and a biological as opposed to an adopted heir, should he win enough for any of that to become relevant is not my mc’s idea of “victory” by any means.

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I finally remembered to check back and play the updated version, and I’m so glad I did! I’m really enjoying the strategizing required to keep my little band happy and healthy.

I did notice that even after my kuria escaped from the dungeons with only Breden , Radmar,and her father, a bunch of helots who I thought had died in the failed rebellion suddenly started showing up in late chapter 2 and chapter 3 (namely Elery, Poric, and Joana). The game seems to acknowledge that only the 4 of us found and joined the Whend outlaw band, and yet a few others keep being mentioned by name - even Elery, who is also listed among my fallen comrades on the stats page.

I also got this quote

“The Alastors arrested thirteen of them,” Breden explains immediately to Zvad. “They accused them of avoiding the Harrowing; it made a good excuse to Harrow the whole lot of us, many more than they’d normally choose. I think they were also hoping that one would snap and start accusing the others in public. If Alya hadn’t saved us, we’d all be dead.”

In the beginning of chapter 3, even though I’m not sure I actually succeeded at saving anyone, I just got knocked out and arrested.

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Thanks – will add those to the fix list!

Now that I’m back from the hills, should be able to make more progress toward the final pre-beta update…

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D’oh. Accidental double post.

Let’s use it for something useful. Anyone have a favorite character in XoR so far, hero or villain, and how do you imagine them developing?

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Probably Horion. Though I imagine him developing from a fresh corpse to a decomposing one.

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I realized this also works on this thread.

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Not my favorite exactly but I really want to know what is going on with Brenden…

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Zvad because he seems to be the only sane person on my side besides Elery, and she doesn’t seem to like me that much.

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