The most I’ve ever had was 250 literate outlaws, and that was when high literacy was my only goal. I would say anywhere from 40-100 is reasonable if literacy is one of your main priorities
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does anyone know what choices boost/decrease noble relationship? ive gotten it to the point where they’re ‘sympathetic’ but not enough for mikal de rose to lead away a theurge in the final battle
playthrough context (has spoilers abit)
for context
i got 20 anarchy,
have primarily raided tithe barns and only raided a yeoman farm for mules and bushels once, raided an alastor garrison once,
made deal with ismene de galis and calea,
spared fedrel,
traded with alaine leybridge,
kept horion leilatou and the ecclesiast with me (you get additional anarchy if you let them go and also decreased noble relationship at the end of ch3, but it seems that its a much better option to release them early for better noble rep)
and accepted simon/suzane (idk if keeping or selling their sword affects nobility rep or not which is why i mentioned)
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being noble is big one.
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apologies, forgot to mention i was already aristo
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This isn’t a comprehensive list, just some ones off the top of my head. Let me know if you’d like the rest;
- Choosing an original, non-assimilated last name at the start
- Being a noble that’s at least slightly nationalist at the start of chapter 2 when you become band leader. You need to share your true beliefs
- Successfully beating the tax collector
- Changing your last name into a Karagond-assimilated one after surviving the winter
- Choosing either “mercy” or something like “their birthright” for the fate of the nobility when creating a new liturgy for your new religion
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ive done all this except for the last 2, im afraid id be below 75% homelander after i change my surname, and the last one is not possible since i run a 2INT/1CHA wisard build
truthfully, i dont mind if im not able to get his help cause i still easily win the final battle with stand and fight but i just feel like its better if i start off the sequel with the nobles and merchants actively supporting me
ill try the second last option though and see if its possible, thank you for your help
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I can’t see anything in the code that gives you back the lost cred if you release Horion after kidnapping him, so I would maybe try not kidnapping him as well.
Another way to get some nobility cred is if you go to the Brecks to disrupt the Keriatou’s sheep flocks and you bring simon/suzanne with you, and select
"The first thing is to restore the rights the Karagonds took from us. After that, we'll look at what may need to change."
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ah, so that is what the brecks are. also thank you for pointing out theres a penalty for releasing him in ch4, ill correct that
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Last couple random things
- you can still start a new religion at CHA1 with Breden’s help, choose the option that everyone can hear the angels.
- Don’t have a romantic relationship with your Cousin Hector
- When you meet with Ismene, tell her it was a helot who convinced you to rebel, and then that an individual doesn’t represent the helotry at large
Ok that’s all good luck 
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thank you, the breck raid and leilatou early release was just the solution to this problem 
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If it’s not too much trouble, I’d like a precise (or as close to precise as you last recalled) build, please.
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Hey! I want to start reading Choice of Rebels. Should I start from the beginning, or jump in on the WIP? It’s the start of the month so I’m putting together my reading list while I have some money to spend on games!
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Lol if you don’t play the first game your bound to miss huge context for things even if you can jump into the demo for the second game.
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Thanks, that’s what I wanted to know. That’s my ‘paid for’ game for this month, then!
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Thank you for asking 
! For this build the number of literate followers was heavily dependent on random chance. Without save scumming I reliably had 100-140 literate followers by winter’s end and could add another 42 with Etthena (skepticism high) and Korzsata (cosmopolitanism high) to get around 150-180. With save scumming however I usually ended with at least 200+. I had to save scum for essentially every week of the winter chapter to get to 250. I’ll write the the guide with all actions in order, and as if you were playing without save scumming.
Save scumming only requires you to duplicate the tab you’re on. You can do it in most COG games not just XOR. I’ll explain at the bottom how to do it. If you’re save scumming you can use the extra mules to sell for gold, and for carrying grain. This allows you not to bother with hunting for rabbits, leaving you 50+ extra bandits each week for recruiting and literacy lessons, and significantly more gold
Prologue:
Choose an aristo with 2CHA (you need both high charisma and to be literate for this build). You need to successfully stop the harrowing. You cannot piss off the merchants, so avoid looting the town or choosing #We need to make a brutal example of the authorities. Every servant of the Thaumatarch who hears about this day should fear us.
Ideally, you also get the merchants and yeomen to like you in the prologue. It isn’t strictly necessary, but starting with yeomen and merchant cred helps you get on your feet quicker with mules and grain, and merchant cred gives you an extra opportunity to get 2 more mules during the winter (or a definite 2 extra mules if you’re save scumming).
Merchant cred
You can get cred with the merchants by choosing #We should try to disarm them and let them live whenever possible. We need to transform the Hegemony, not to alienate and terrify the people who run it during the harrowing.
Yeomen cred
To get cred with the yeomen, choose a shayardene last name, or have at least 1% towards nationalism at the start of the winter and share your true motivations with the band. You can be very slightly nationalist from a shayardene first or last name, or from the Carles the jongler origin story. To get the extra 22 literate followers from Korszata you need to pivot hard towards cosmopolitanism starting week 1 of the winter. Choose Koine as the band’s language, and after winter change your last name from a shayardene one to one ending in -atou. I usually also choose to lead the band democratically and then name the meeting an apella not a moot but I don’t think that’s neccesary.
After leaving Rim Square, before week 1 :
- Wait until dawn don’t strike camp
- Decrease the sick mules to 0
- Avoid all robbery
- Change rations when Yebben asks, and make detailed changes. Healthy adults on half rations, healthy children on substinence diet, and sick adults and sick children on a healthy diet.
- Choose
No—I want to be the one bringing us through the winter, even if it does mean wrangling a dozen different numbers.
Week 1
- Sell all the band’s 10 forged arms
- Don’t sell any mules, then try and buy as much grain as you can. If the game says it isn’t safe, always choose the amount that you can safely buy don’t take the risk to get more
- Go yourself to beg for mules from the merchants and yeomen (don’t have Breden do it this week)
- Go convince the merchant Alaine to let you start smuggling
- Set 2 bandits to learn their letters
- Send the rest of your bandits to recruit new followers and have Breden lead them
- Choose to eat a healthy diet (you can choose as little as possible if you are save scumming)
Week 2-5 (Do all of this each week)
- Sell 1 mule each week, buy as much grain as you can safely without risk.
- Send Breden to beg for mules. The first time you send Breden begging for mules he will bring you 2 mules, then 1, then usually no mules only a little grain and coin. He will occasionally get lucky after the first time and get another 2 mules. When he gets lucky (not the first week) you should send exactly 18 followers to go hunting for bears that week.
- The grain from selling mules should cover your grain need most of these weeks, but when you need more send some followers hunting for rabbits. If you need more food and can’t send more rabbit hunting then send followers to get grain from sympathetic helots.
- Set 2 bandits to learn their letters
- Send the rest of your bandits to recruit new followers and lead them personally
- You grain caravan might get hit from week 2 onwards, it’s a setback but just continue buying the amount of grain the game tells you is safe and makeup the grain you lost by hunting rabbits
Week 6-9 (Do all of this each week)
- Continue selling 1 mule each week, buy as much grain as you can safely without risk.
- Send both yourself and Breden to go begging for mules. This is all luck based. You or Breden can get lucky and get 2 mules. If Breden gets lucky then send either 18 or 57 followers bear hunting, depending on how much food you need. Your MC can also get luck and get 2 mules, but do not send followers bear hunting when you do.
- You will probably need more grain than you can get from buying grain/selling mules, so continue sending followers to hunt rabbits (or bears if you get luckyl with Breden that week) and potentially begging for food.
- Smuggle for Alaine when the opportunity arises
- Have the rest of your outlaws study their letters
After week 9 of the winter thereisn’t anything that will get you more literate followers, except for the late-comers you get by being an extremist. Being extremely skeptical and cosmopolitan get you the most literate followers, but you still get some literate follower if you’re extremely nationalist and devout.
Save scumming
You can “save scum” a number of random events in XOR, all of which are rolled for at the beginning of a new week. Some things you can reroll are how much food you get rabbit hunting that week, your grain caravan being raided that week, and getting sick that week because you aren’t eating enough. The most important thing you can reroll is one variable called randbear. Randbear determines how many followers it takes to successfully hunt a bear. More importantly randbear also determines if your MC or Breden get lucky that week and find mules when they normally wouldn’t. The MC and Breden always find a set amount of mules if your yeomen and merchant cred are high enough. After you burn through these mules, there is a very small chance of finding 2 extra mules that week when you normally wouldn’t be able to. By save scumming you reroll that chance until you get 2 extra mules each week, making the winter considerably easier and allowing you to recruit 1000+ followers or get 200+ literate followers. Note only you or Breden can get an extra 2 mules a week, you cannot both get the 2 lucky mules a week.
To do this, you need to play on the web browser version on pc or mobile not on steam or the omnibus app. All you need to do is duplicate the tab before you make a choice, which essentially creates a little save of that exact spot. I usually duplicate a page 3-7 times if I am unsure what the outcome will be. There’s no limit to how far you can go back, as long as you have a duplicate of that point in the story.
For example, if you wanted Breden to find 2 mules the next week, you would duplicate the page just before the end of your current week. The page always says “One more week behind us”, I’ll link a pic below. If Breden didn’t find any mules that following week, you would exit out of that tab and open one of the tabs you duplicated. By starting the week again, you reroll the chance of him finding 2 new mules. You would keep exiting out of tabs and restarting the week with one of the tabs you duplicated earlier until Breden found the 2 mules for that week.
I’ve done this for most games I’ve played for any big decisions, so I can see the outcome before I actually choose. It sort of ruins the fun of surprise but if you just care about min maxing then it’s one of your best tools!
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Thank you so much for the timely and thorough reply! I look forward to playing! (especially since I’m celebrating from having passed my partnership tax class midterm)
With the Xthonic priesthood (state religion with plenty of state capacity, second to the noble’s) having the support of the Hegemony (and vice versa applying), one would think that the Xthonic priests would have more access to literacy opportunities, right? (compared to the not-as-liked atheistic Neres, I imagine)
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Haha yes you’d think so! All 12 diakons you get for being devout are literate, but the rest of the new followers are helots so it makes sense they aren’t literate. Etthena’s group has been outside of the Hegemony’s reach for a while, so my guess is they’ve had more opportunities to educate themselves freely. Or maybe a larger proportion of them are freeborn rather than helots?
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Good points!
That’s now making me think the tradeoff isn’t “who has more literacy,” but breadth vs depth.
Etthena’s followers being outside the Hegemony’s reach could plausibly end up with a broader base of literate freeborn merchants, refugees, dissidents, and organizers. Like a lot of historical diaspora (e.g. Jewish) communities, literacy becomes a survival tool instead of an elite privilege.
Meanwhile, the Xthonic hierarchy probably still monopolizes the highest scholarship. Once you get above the diakons to the Ecclesiasts, they likely(?) have access to restricted libraries, ancient texts, institutional archives, legal precedents, and generations of apprenticeship inside the Hegemony.
So maybe the gameplay tradeoff is:
Etthena: more literate followers spread throughout your movement.
Devout: fewer recruits overall, but a chance to win over absolute intellectual heavyweights whose institutional knowledge you just can’t reproduce outside the Hegemony.
In other words, Etthena wins the literacy game, while the Ecclesia wins the scholarship game. That feels like a more interesting asymmetry than one side simply having “better educated” people.
P.S.
This got me wondering about something. Could this end up being one of the hidden advantages of a centrist playthrough that manages to keep both the Xthonic priesthood and the Neres onside (or at least in a durable, reluctant alliance)?
Historically, empires sometimes benefited from maintaining a balance between competing factions rather than trying to eliminate one outright. If there’s always a credible external threat on the frontier, it also gives both sides a reason to keep cooperating despite their domestic rivalry.
In gameplay terms, that could create a neat synergy: the Xthonic priesthood gains access to a much larger pool of literate agents through the Neres, while the Neres gradually gain access to higher scholarship and institutional knowledge that only the priesthood possesses. Instead of either side “winning,” the player ends up combining the strengths of both traditions.
I don’t know if that’s where you’re taking the setting, but it struck me as a fun possibility for a successful “big tent” ruler. It also feels like the sort of imperial repertoire that has shown up more than once in history.
P.S.S. Though now that I’ve talked myself into this idea, I can also see why it might not work.
The Xthonic hierarchy may actually have a strong incentive not to spread literacy too broadly. Their authority rests on the Ecclesiasts and leading Eclect occupying a fairly predictable intellectual hierarchy. If you suddenly create lots more highly educated people, you might accidentally create rival centers of learning and prestige. That reminds me a bit of Peter Turchin’s “elite overproduction” idea—produce more elite aspirants than there are elite positions, and sooner or later some start challenging the establishment instead of reinforcing it.
And from the Neres’ perspective, the reverse problem exists. If they finally gained access to the priesthood’s deeper scholarship through an alliance, maybe they’d simply use that knowledge to outcompete—or eventually replace—the Xthonic establishment instead of peacefully coexisting.
So maybe both sides have perfectly rational reasons to keep some knowledge flowing across the aisle, but not enough that the other side becomes an existential rival. That tension actually sounds like fertile ground for gameplay.
P.S.S.S. Maybe the real glue isn’t theology—it’s commerce.
If the player spends years building up merchants and trade, you create a third faction that needs peace to stay rich. Xthonists and Neres may never agree on the gods, but they can at least agree that prosperous markets, reliable trade, affordable energy, and rising living standards are worth preserving.
Of course, maybe that’s too optimistic. If the post-Hegemony world means everyone is competing over the living standards Harrowing once made possible, economic hardship might overwhelm those incentives and push both camps toward even deeper tribalism—leaving the moderate ruler squeezed out by both sides.
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@Havenstone Will we ever get the opportunity to interact with the Architelone Raid collaborators we didn’t work with (like Bleys Meriwether, Ismene de Galis, Aven & Joules Sarinatou, or Gorbel)? For example, you’ve indicated that Ismene will have relevance to us in Grand Shayard, but seemed to frame it as only occurring if she was convinced to help the Whendward Band. Is this the case for the other potential characters connected to the raid? In Ismene’s case, it would be disappointing if the raid was our only opportunity for meeting her, considering her familial connection to an aristo player.
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They do – the same incentive that every authoritarian power structure has to minimize the population’s ability to access and disseminate ideas outside of carefully controlled spaces – but this is one area where the content of the ideology is more robust than the political interests of its core institutions. Religions often end up broadcasting messages of egalitarianism and compassion even in their ugliest authoritarian phases, because those messages were baked in at their charismatic founding stage, and even ones that rewrite the script (as the Hegemony allegedly did) can’t entirely erase the early core messages.[1]
The prophets of the Angels, delivering messages that were often unwelcome to the powers-that-be, wrote their revelations down and taught all their followers to promote literacy as the primary means for the message to spread. That early emphasis is what has so many Diakons still teaching the helots their alphabeta, even when the hierarchy is queasily aware (and the Theurges even more so) that it could undermine their rule.
So skepticism doesn’t correlate with literacy. That’s of course true in our world too; for most of history, the literate people were the most pious. In the gameworld, the priesthood mostly follows the divine command to teach people to read; and while the urban Nyr are for the most part highly educated, the nomads are rather less literate than the average Hegemonic subject.
If it happens with anyone, it’ll happen with Ismene.
In other news, I was amused today that the 12-year-old Havenpebble, who’s practicing ChoiceScript for fun, decided he was going to write Choice of Rebels – or rather, his best guess as to what it’s about, given that he’s not yet allowed to read it but has heard me talk about it. Here’s his version of the prologue:
The same is of course true of uncompassionate or authoritarian messages baked in from the beginning. As hard as liberal interpreters try to refocus their teaching and practice on the religion’s alleged core compassionate teaching, the seeds of something different and more oppressive remain there to be picked up by new readers. ↩︎
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