Choice of Rebels: Uprising — Lead the revolt against a bloodthirsty empire!


It kinda fits, as Biden seems to think working with the Republicans and bipartisanship will again be suddenly, magically possible once Trump is out of the picture, when in reality you’d need to Republican party to be dominated by a wing of people like our own big tiger, as to most of the Republicans “compromise” seems to be a dirty word. Not that the Democrats are entirely guiltless in the current state of US affairs, but at the moment it is clearly the Republican Party that has gone entirely off the rails.

Breden seems to be given to the same sort of fallacious thinking, albeit in much more dire circumstances. Breden conveniently forgets that even with the current Thaumatarch out of the picture there is still prince(ss) nippletwister and the nine arch-mages to contend with, at the very minimum.

China is purportedly covered but the accuracy of China’s census information the authors use is questionable at best. Which may not be entirely their fault as even our own Cata will go on and on that even today China’s census and the Communist Party’s actual government control of the country, let alone their census keeping in China’s vast interior is spotty at best. But how much actual control the government has seems not be a variable that was looked at very closely.
Therefore don’t believe the data set on China meets the same scientific standard as the others.

I’d say this is a problem for India too, which also has a problem with keeping a truly accurate census and has a lot of issues with actual law implementation and enforcement as many of the more high minded laws used to simply go unenforced in the countryside and even today there still is a problem with filling all the affirmative action jobs with “qualified people”.

Now obviously Columbia University and the authors would disagree with me, but based on their data set I don’t think we can conclude this hypothesis as universally proven.
What I think the study does prove is that in a society largely based on our western, institutional model of governance it probably applies. But it is noteworthy that China and today Russia too explicitly reject our model of the “social contract” with China even trying to go 1984 and form mr. Xi’s “total control” society.

The last point I already mentioned but the time period examined, 1900 to 2006 matches poorly with the game world as the game world at present does not even have mass circulated broadsheets for mass media nor does it have much enlightenment thinking and philosophy, save what people like the mc or Horion and a handful of others are only now starting to formulate.
Needless to say those ideas have not had much time to trickle down and permeate society, yet.
The only area the game world seems to be ahead in is possible atheism or at least anti-clericalism. But that alone does not solve most questions of democratic governance.

@Ramidel I see the poll has now reached the state I instinctively predicted at first with tyranny and oligarchy in the lead, except that the apella still ranks higher than the more traditional moot. But that is likely because most of those trying democratic reforms are more likely to lean towards cosmopolitanism over nationalism to begin with.
When I first looked some regulars like Empress @Eiwynn, @cascat07 or even bryce probably hadn’t voted yet. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


The moot extends the franchise even more than the apella does, so the moot being behind the apella fits perfectly your hypothesis that the more democratic an option, the less popular it is.


The problem is that it also seems to be firmly rooted in Shayardene tradition and then probably only the more anglo-saxon parts at that, so it may struggle even more to gain traction in the other parts of the (former) Hegemony and is probably less suited be “scaled up” to handle government at a larger scale than villages or at most city-states too.
The main problem for my mc still remains that the moot aligns you much more closely to Shayardene “tradition” and costs you in cosmopolitanism.

Aside from that giving kids the vote might not be all that advantageous in the long run, even with the fact that there may be certain exceptions, such as Pin.


I’m not happy about that either. My MC is a pragmatist and would pick whatever ideas my MC deems best (such as moots and calling the MC’s magic wisardry) regardless of where those ideas originated. My MC certainly did not pick those ideas just because they were Shayardene concepts. I would consider such ideological flexibility to be a cosmopolitan view but sadly the game does not agree.


Remember that the stats aren’t measuring your mental state or personal preferences but how you’re perceived by the average Hegemonic subject.


That’s not always comforting in politics where perception is everything, true or not.
Remember McCain’s black baby?


Actually, it’s a very small lead for tyranny over democracy, with oligarchy in a more distant third place, but all three methods in shouting distance.

While I separated moot and apella in the poll, they’re lumped together in a broader sense and only distinct in the forms and the franchise.

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If I remember rightly, moot and apella do have one distinct difference which is what is considered “of age” to vote, which might not seem like a big deal, but to me is enough. Teens are stupid.


Welcome back @Laguz. It is good to see you here again.

You are correct, 14 for the moot and over 19 for the apella.

@Havenstone Is there any chance INT 2+ MCs can rebrand themselves in game 2 as a “mage” for a cosmopolitan option? I was too late suggesting it, but “mage” seems to refer already to both Hegemony Theurges and Halassur’s magi. There were 3 options in game 1, 2 played into the Hegemony’s religion and the third adds to homelander. It would be nice to have a cosmopolitan option.

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They’re children, not teens. Wait until the hormones kick in. Then we’ll have another two Kalas.

Pin barely exists outside of telling you if the children are starving or not. She’s a static, satellite character who revolves only around the protagonist and their choices, and stops having any friends or interactions about a week into banditry aside from the momentary scenes of “sick child to make player feel sad” and “starving child to make player feel sad”. I can’t consider her a human being in good faith.

Her likes and personal motivations seem to be “not starving” and “not dying” and her dislikes seem to be “starving” and “dying”; same for Aless. I don’t know enough about them, unlike Radmar who makes himself very plain: once you know your obstacle you know how to get over it.


True, which makes the fact that they are more fit to vote than some of the adults even more impressive. I can think of plenty of stupid adults including a world leader or two.

The personality of Kala/Kalt has more to do with the background you learn on the sheep raid than anything to do with hormones.

What you mean is that the MC does not keep track of Pin’s actions probably because the MC has more important things to do. That does not mean Pin did nothing in the background.

Those sound like good priorities indicative of sound judgment to me.

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What i cant understand why i can’t kill all the kids inthe group Herodes style they are a pure annoyance. I could destroyed the harrowing but say fuck it I don’t want dead weight in my rebellion and helots could die for all i care.


SERIOUSLY who in hell decided save the kids is good.

:hugs: Welcome @Laguz


Welcome back, @Laguz :slightly_smiling_face:

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Well our mc does start out as a teenage miscreant turned rebel…so make of that what you will.
I do agree 20 would be a much better age of enfranchisement though, even today instead of 18.


The Rebellion like the United States of America asks teens to risk their lives. The right to vote is small recompense for that.


18 in old times is not teen. lol woman could have five kids already and man being soldiers with two or three years in the polis army


Well then maybe the age of majority at 20 is one Karagond thing my mc does like to keep around.
For non helots who survive childhood the game world has an average life expectancy far in excess of our medieval times and probably even our 18th century.

Yep, like our modern armies regularly still ask teens to do, particularly in the US. At 18 you can risk your life but you can’t have a glass of wine legally. All systems end up with their own bizarre quirks, I guess.

True, still ideally my mc would like for kids and teens to be in education or training, not politics.

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Yeah, and your MC, a teen, is stupid, and unless you’re very careful or playing with a guide or other meta information, is bound to end up killing their own supporters, dying, starving, being imprisoned, being poisoned (twice), making themself sick, killing children, making themself appear mad, and possibly chasing away if not outright killing their supporters through one mean or other.

The player either clings to Breden, a teen with secrets and very, very good charisma but still a hormonal idiot who is silver-tongued but sadly dumb of ass, or Zvad, who is not a teen, and is also your dad now, I guess.

Anyway, as Havenstone has admitted, his characters can be flat and world apathetic because of a lack of this information. Characters should not exist when only the plot desires them for some grim event.


No. Some players can roleplay their MCs being idiots or failures, but it certainly is not required.

I agree about Breden actually. Zvad on the other hand was a failure as a bandit leader which is the whole reason why the MC is accepted as leader instead.


I mean, if your lover (wasn’t he also the previous leader?) got killed, you would be in a funk. It’s no surprise that you can catch him crying to sleep.

The reason the MC is chosen is that they were there, they threw the first word back against the enemy, so they’re a symbol of defiance more than they are actually competent. They may have intelligence or combat skill or whatever as their highest stat, but that’s still so piss-poor in comparison to the major players in the universe that the Empire doesn’t see them, and their rebellion, as anything more than a gnat. Which is true, because they’re a stupid teen who, if they actually beat the soldiers sent after them, only did so through huge losses or information they couldn’t have possibly learned without inside help.

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