Choice of Rebels: Stormwright (XoR2 WIP)

Hey @Havenstone got another set of questions for ya if you don’t mind :))

  1. Would it be possible in the future of the series for us to establish an order like the Knights Templars, especially considering runs where we are fighting a violent rebellion?

  2. Are you able to reveal what’s Ester Cabel’s COM/INT/CHA stats? Curious what kind of leader she was though I get it if not. Also when we meet Jac Cabel would we be able to discuss the Great Rising? More specifically Jac’s role in it (Unless age wise of course he was too young).

3)Would the MC ever be able to give themselves an epithet?

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This talk of Wards has got me wondering if it’d be practical to fuel a small City Ward with just self-sourced blood magic. I’m doubtful, but it’s the kind of question our protagonist might ask Cerlota after crossing into Grand Shayard. (This assumes that other parts of Wardtech wouldn’t require human sacrifice, but those are unknown unknowns for our MCs)

Initially, I was thinking from a pacifist (commune) perspective, but any rebellion that can capture and hold a city is vulnerable to Theurgic scouring and could be interested in defensive options. Of course, our time in Grand Shayard will probably be proof that no Ward on its own can keep trouble out, but in theory it wouldn’t need to in the long run. It’d just need to be enough of a deterrent that sending the taxman or diplomat is preferable to sending a warband.

Incidentally, Sojourn features ‘diplomats’ and Irduin features the taxman, they really are everywhere

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@Havenstone, Is there any estimate of how large is halassurq’s military?

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Deep thought: Would Shayard have been on a downward spiral if not for the Karagond invasion of the Old Shayardene Realm. Because either the Zaos storms would push Eastwards, or if it somehow doesn’t they’d have gotten conquered by the Halassurqs, or fallen into Abhuman influence.

:thinking:

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Been a very long time since i seen info on that question or thought about it lol yet I think the storms weren’t a issue back then? Same with the other two people’s at least for MCs homeland when it was its own thing. The so called abhumans might not even be what they are now had they not been sealed with those storms by the wards.

Just a vague remberance or thoughts on them I have lol

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@Xlbeutel and @apple correctly answered your other questions, and I’m not going to confirm or deny anyone’s theories about the Streels.

It is not in fact possible to make a permanent ward that doesn’t require ongoing infusion of blood, and the reason is not the immense blood cost. :slight_smile:

Possibly – we’ll see how things play out.

I don’t really stat up characters other than the MC, so don’t have numbers to share, but Ester was a high CHA and COM leader.

You will most definitely be able to discuss the Rising, but Jac was too young to take part in person.

If you’re a massively popular emperor, then probably, eventually. Otherwise it’ll continue to be a slot for what people actually call you.

Probably not. To fuel a City Ward with donated blood, you’d need to be drawing on a population of around 5.2m. Only Aekos has an urban population that would fit the bill, and only because it’s spending even more blood on agriculture and grain transport; its population would quickly drop if it started using 92% of its donated phials to keep a Ward up. Grand Shayard and Osterport have a combined population of around 3.5m, and Corlune (which is best placed to feed itself without Theurgic intervention) 2m.

Even if you drew on those cities’ rural hinterlands, you’d struggle to build a sustainable state where virtually all the benefits of the blood taxation went to protecting the city. I reckon you couldn’t keep taxing the rural areas without violence; and once you’re violently coercing your peasantry in the name of keeping the city defenses up, you’re on the quick road to swapping out taxing a couple million of them to just Harrowing 1% or 2% of them every year to keep up your City Ward. Wards are, fundamentally, a technology of Harrowing.

If you were ready to Harrow refugees and prisoners of war, you might be able to use this strategy.

Bigger than the Hegemony’s–maybe around 2.5m, though no one in the Hegemony could say for sure.

The Xaos-storms wouldn’t have happened without the Karagond conquest, Halassur would have contested Erezza with Shayard rather than being able to conquer the Shayardene core territories, and Abhuman influence by that point was decisively non-imperialistic. So no, Shayard really would have been the dominant force on its continent if Hera hadn’t come up with Harrowing.

Edit: and a progress update: I’m still working my way through the “everyone you’ve potentially pissed off has a chance to kill you” sections and their consequences. I’ll try to have one ready to post for Snippet Day.

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“Xthon-dammit, the Alastor captain in this part of Nyr is actually doing his job. None of the rebellions we’ve been whipping last five minutes before they get juiced. Let’s get him his rightful spot in Elysia already.”

No, but the MC can plan to invent them.

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TBH if you’re an Alastor who successfully ferrets out a Kryptast you deserve a promotion for going above and beyond. Alas.

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This always made me giggle, mostly the fact that Hera’s victories against the Shayardenes was mostly because of Theurgy and not because the Karagond millitary was anything exceptional. Ofcourse some people can make the argument here that it was, and ofcourse thats possibly, and probably true if confirm that fact, but from what I recalled the Karagonds failed to defeat any opponent whom possessed theurgy of their own. The Karagond invasions of Halassur is a common cited example of Karagond incompetance in the thread, I think I remembered somebody saying that the Karagond strategy is throwing Hundreds of Thousands of Theurges and Infantry pass the Halassurq-Erret Border ward, and thinking about it a bit more, I believe this is Karagond strategy in the vast majority of their millitary expeditions.

But in all fairness I never saw Hera as a Millitary mastermind, like ffs her method of defeating the Nyr was to Try-hard by dropping a mountain on them… Regardless, I think shes more of a architect of Theurgy in more uhh.. practical scenarios, rather than millitary conquest.

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Shayard and the other nations of the pre-conquest era practiced self-sacrifice theurgy with their own Wisards, Strega, etc. long before Hera. The main innovation of Hera’s Theurgic Revolution was the discovery of refined blood for theurgic purposes, aka the ability for theurges to use massive concentrations of aether from other people instead of draining themselves for comparatively meager aether quantities. This is what allowed Karagond to massively outmatch the rest of the continent in theurgic capacity and conquer Old Shayard, a far richer country with a much larger army that would have crushed Karagond with their own theurges had they known of harrowing.

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I always thought of that as the karagonds trying to show off, and trying to make a permanent reminder of their might to people who live in Nyr today. Like “This is what happens when you defy us.” I imagine back then theurges could’ve defeated the Nyr much more easily, but Hera chose not to do it straightforwardly.

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its also not totaly true, they had profesional and very high qulity army before. degredation of army and wastly increasing its numbers is comperativly new development asociated with new offensives 30 years ago if i remember right

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The Nyr had some pretty prominent magi of their own involved in the defense of Nyrnakan – but I’ve not said much about that yet, so fair play to assume otherwise. :slight_smile:

That’s Aunt Agarie de Irde’s aristocratic interpretation – but the reason the Karagond generals switched from a smaller, more intensively trained military to human wave tactics was because, at least initially, the latter were showing better results against Halassur’s defenses. “Quantity has a quality all its own,” as Stalin/Lenin/Napoleon probably didn’t say.

On a (hopefully not entirely unrelated?) note, I’ve just discovered that QuickTest will choke if your scene file gets too big. Previously I’d hit the problem of not being able to upload an overlarge file to COGDemos, but Chani had fixed that, so I was trying to keep the whole back half of the Irduin experience in a single txt. But thanks to the need to pass QT, as of yesterday, irduin3.txt has joined the scene_list. :upside_down_face:

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How much bigger is the Irduin content than it was originally planned to be?

Given that if I recall correctly in the original description of Stormwright “much of the time will be in the capital”, I am both excited and concerned at the possible scale of stuff - will we need two books to cover the events in Grand Shayard? /joking

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Much bigger. :slight_smile: Partly that stems from my decision to wrap up G2 in Irduin; that requires bigger endings than I’d originally planned. Partly it stems from overambition in e.g. splitting the aristo path into multiple arcs, in ways I can avoid in future. But it’s also because as I started to write it, I decided that this was a level of the world that was important to unpack in substantial detail.

My intention with XoR has always been to zoom out to progressively broader levels of the gameworld, so that by the end, you have a sense of how the system operates at every major level. Some of my favorite fiction does something like this – Breaking Bad, The Wire, Daniel Abraham’s Long Price Quartet, Liu Cixin’s Three-Body Problem books, to some extent Stephen King’s Dark Tower.[1] With XoR, where you’re trying to transform the world system, I feel like it’s especially important to have the story take you up through the levels of that system, before you’re finally grappling with the fate of the whole continent (and to some extent the neighboring ones too).

Major Havenstone influence Robert Jordan also does this with his Wheel of Time – but of course that one’s also a cautionary tale, because of how much the story ends up sagging as he explores just about every corner of a big world! Maybe that’s the trap I’m falling into here…but I hope that’s not how this section will ultimately read.

Partly, interactivity will help with that; WoT would have felt less saggy if you could choose either an extensive sequence in Ebou Dar or Cairhien, rather than getting both. My readers won’t see anything close to all the Irduin material on any given playthrough. But I also think one reason WoT sagged was because for several books, it felt like we were spending endless pages at the same level rather than really going deeper into the world.

Irduin is the player’s introduction to how the rural Hegemony generally works. It’s a deeper dive than we ever got in Game 1, both because the Outer Rim is every bit as peripheral as the name suggests, and because G1 is at heart a story about being a bandit in the wilderness. We see a little bit of the rural world through our raids, but not how the system we’re preying on really works. Irduin is where we focus on that level, and as I was writing it, I recognized that I needed to give it more room than I’d originally planned.

Irduin is of course distinctive in the attempted benevolence of its order, and it introduces in Tamran one of the series’ main voices for rebel pacifism. I hope readers are engaged by the question of what stance to take toward a place managed with about as much goodwill as is possible under the Hegemony, short of outright rebellion. But I think Irduin is an important section not primarily because it’s distinctive, but because it’s representative of a lot of broader rural dynamics.

I expect a lot of readers to initially be like, “why should I care about this place? it’s not strategically important,” and in particular, “why are we getting so much about the conflict with the annoying taxman?” Hopefully that will set up a couple of lightbulb moments when it becomes clear: the dilemmas the powers-that-be in Irduin are grappling with are, over and over, ones that you’ll have to face in future if you’re to truly transform the Hegemonic world system.[2] If you win, you’ll be the annoying taxman, especially if you mean to try for a less horrific alternative to Harrowing.

As an example of how those themes will become explicit: here’s what I’ve got at the moment when you return to Irduin after your final visit to the rebels in the Rim.

Summary

As you’re walking past the Chesnery Oak, you catch an unexepctedly strong whiff of urine and look around, nose wrinkled. There’s a great new-hewn basalt disc leaning against the tree, rounded like a millstone but smoother and with no eyehole to hold an axle or rynd-iron. From the smell and spatter in the dust, you’d judge that several dozen people have recently pissed on it.

It’s early afternoon, so almost no one is in the caskroom other than lady Alasais, deep in conversation with Maurs. As the sound of their greeting, Tamran also appears with @{(tam_rel = 0) an unsmiling nod|a grin} and your usual @{irddrink refreshment|cider|wine|ale|canewine}. Taking it, you quirk an eyebrow and ask, “Something wrong with your privy or garden that’s sent so many more than usual to the oak?”

Tamran snorts, shaking her head. “Telone Baldassare ordered a weight-stone for the merchants, to measure out their tin and other goods. It came by mule a few days ago, along with another new medimnos-box for next year’s harvest. That was whisked off right away and locked up in the Naos. Since you can’t burn a stone, they left it for later.” Her lips curve ruefully upward. “And now no one’s in a hurry to carry it up to the Stannary.”

“I’ve told Baldassare that a little anointing won’t hurt anything,” Maurs offers from across the room. “Farrec can wait for the next good rain.”

“Don’t they already have a weighing-stone up there?” @{((ird_focus = 3) or (ird_subfocus = 3)) Of course, you know they do.|you ask. Surely they need it when they trade tin for smelting-coal.}

“The old one might not be exactly the weight specified in the Law of Prices. And the Telone is very keen that everything be done in precise accordance with law.” Tamran’s voice is wry.

“This is the matter your father and I were discussing, lass. The Telones insist on having the will of the Archon and Thaumatarch enforced the same way everywhere, with not the least variation. And the Archon and Thaumatarch make their decisions for the good of the realm, Angels bless them.” Alasais’s deep frustration grows audible through her calm, pleasant veneer. “But the folk of the districts live and thrive off lesser goods, ones below the notice of Grand Shayard or Aekos. If I do not consider the good of my neighbors, who will? And if I can not, how will the order of Irduin persist?”

You don’t share her view of the Archon and Thaumatarch, needless to say—but after the experience of trying to guide Rim rebels from a distance, you recognize there’s a real tension here. Dreaming of a day when the Hegemony has fallen and you’re building a new order, you think:
*choice
#Lady Alasais is right. We need an order where local leaders adapt the far-off ruler’s edicts to local realities.
*set orderview 6
How can someone in Grand Shayard, or even in Vaulens, really understand what’s needed in a far-flung corner of the realm like Irduin? When and if you’re in a place to make the rules, you’ll find local leaders who understand your righteous and orderly principles well enough to work out the details as appropriate on their own little patch.
*goto messyreal

#No. I’ll make laws for the genuine good of the realm, and insist on them being implemented faithfully and exactly.
*set orderview 1
Why should every village be free to set its own weights and measures? @{(religion > 19) Kenon|$!{thankoath}} help me—I’ll need a Baldassare. Someone who’ll not be readily swayed by the appeals of sympathetic locals like Alasais or Maurs to make an exception that benefits their merchants. Someone relentless in enforcing the law…but enforcing your good laws, not the blood-soaked nonsense of the Hegemony.
*goto messyreal

*if (skepreal < 51) #Once I’ve replaced the Thaumatarch’s blasphemies with the Angels’ true word, I won’t want locals to be free to pursue their own heresies.
*set orderview 2
The true law is, by definition, the one that hews closest to the Order of Xthonos and the uncorrupted original revelation of the Blessed Angels—whether we’re talking about the law on murder or weights and measures. If as lawmaker you happen to misunderstand some part of that revelation, you’d want @{(democ < 10) your trusted counselors|people} to explain your error to you, so the law can be fixed for everyone; but you mustn’t leave every petty noble or village elder free to disregard the Angels’ will.
*goto messyreal

#I don’t want a world of vast realms at all. Better to have small ones, whose many rulers can never be too far from the people they rule.
*set orderview 9
If Irduin were ruled from Mesniel, a well-intentioned ruler could actually understand its needs, along with the other demesnes like it. But how can an Archon in Grand Shayard ever aspire to that kind of knowledge—let alone a Hegemonic ruler in distant Aekos? You want a world where laws aren’t made in ignorance of the people and places they’ll govern.
*goto messyreal

*if (democ > 0) and ((ird_focus = 4) or (ird_subfocus = 4))
#Indeed, after my time in Irduin, I can just about imagine rule by ${moot} throughout the world, with each village making its own rules.
*set orderview 10
No moot gets everything right…but its members will have the best understanding of local problems and possible solutions, and when they get something wrong they’ll notice and correct it faster than some distant archon ever could. If sacrifice is needed, better for people to decide among themselves how to bear it, rather than having an answer imposed by an outsider.
*goto messyreal
*label messyreal

For now, you just incline your head with a look of sympathy. “Has anyone tried convincing the Telone that reality is messier than his books?”

“We have; we still do. And in gentler fashion than our neighbors who’ve made a mess of his stone.” Maurs sighs. “Whether he’ll ever believe it, Angels only know.”

*if cerl_here

When you climb back up into the stable loft, Cerlota greets you with a nod and @{(me_lit > 0) Welcome scratched on her tablet. All is well. She’s being over-cautious, as usual; you’ve scanned the whole area and are sure there’s no one in hearing range.|a whisper of, “All is well.” She must know that no one is nearby, to be daring to speak at even a low level.}

You reply with @{cerlover a kiss and|} @{(cerlvamp > 2) strained|relieved} joviality. “I see–or should I say, smell–that the Telone’s efforts to squeeze more tax out of Irduin are yielding different results than he’d imagined.”

She doesn’t smile, just @{(me_lit > 0) writes, Has it occurred to you– After a moment’s pause, she continues, If you ever hoped to ‘tax’ people for blood without Harrowing, you’d face all the resistance we’re seeing here, and worse.|beckons you close enough that she can breathe into your ear: “You realize that if you hoped to ‘tax’ folk for blood without Harrowing them, you would face all the same resistance you’ve seen here, and worse.”} [3]

*choice
#I step back, angry. “Although it would spare millions of lives?” It must be possible to fuel a realm’s ${wisardry} without mass murder.
*set wisgoal 7
Cerlota clicks her tongue. The folk you’d need to tax aren’t the ones whose lives are now at stake.

“But we’d be asking so little of them. Nothing like the tax and tithe. There’s scarce any harm from being bled.”

They would feel themselves harmed. And shamed. They will resist.
*choice
#“Then we’ll break that resistance.”
Cerlota exhales slowly. As Telone and Theurge are trying, here?

“In a better cause. For a vastly more reasonable demand. And backed by millions of helots refusing to return to the old ways.” Your voice is taut with anger. “Otherwise, I suppose, something a bit like Baldassare’s efforts. Yes.”
*set wisgoal 8
*goto darksols
#“We’ll win them over.”
*set wisgoal 9
Cerlota exhales slowly.
*if (religion > 0) and (religion < 6)
There is a limit to what folk will do, even for an Eclect.
*elseif (religion > 8)
It is easier to persuade folk @{(religion > 17) to embrace the idea of kenon|that they can hear Angels} than to bleed themselves for you.
*elseif (cha > 1)
You’re a ${woman} of great charm, but even for you…
*else
Persuading them to rebel will be hard enough without draining them as well.

“We will convince them,” you repeat firmly.
*label notanhege
“I don’t yet know how. But we’ll do it. We won’t be just another damned Hegemony.”
*goto darksols
#I don’t know what we’ll do–but I’m not going to give up on my dream of a realm not built on Harrowing.
“We’ll find a way,” you insist.
*goto notanhege

#“That’s why @{(sarcifidea > 0) Sarcifer was right. A realm that relies on Theurgy will fail. We need to reduce that reliance|we need to reduce our reliance on Theurgy} to almost nothing.” *set wisgoal 10
Without Theurgy? Cerlota shakes her head slowly. Millions would starve, first. Halassur would invade unchecked.

“There’s such waste and war today, and I’ll make sure it dies with the Hegemony. I’ll set you and those like you to finding non-Theurgic ways to save lives.” You jab a finger eastward. “If you had to fight off Halassur without magic, segnura, I know you’d find a way.”

I’d die trying. Her eyes are anything but hopeful.
*goto darksols

#“But Harrowing won’t?” @{(wisgoal > 1) I’m close to reluctantly accepting|I’ve accepted} that we’ll need to keep Harrowing; I just want to hear her case for it.
Her stylus scratches briskly across the slate. Folk are already accustomed to it. Unlike the Telones’ demands; and unlike any attempt at a universal blood tax.

“Never fear, kuria Lotte. I’m not about to abandon the only effective way to arm ourselves against Theurges and magi. We’ll just Harrow differently.”

She raises an eyebrow. How?
*choice
#My lips tighten. “It will be a long, long time before we run out of enemies who deserve the Harrower.”
*set wisgoal 3
“Hegemonic agents and collaborators; anyone who makes war against us; @{aristo criminals of both high and low station|aristos who abused their helotry}…they’ll be the ones who go to the Harrower. The ones who deserve it.”

*gosub cerlmanythoughts
And if you win? If the war is over?

“Then the world will be different. Then anything might be possible.”

If that day ever comes.
*goto darksols

#“I’ll give the helots themselves more choice in which of them is selected.” @{knowhelpick Like in Irduin.|}
*set wisgoal 2
*gosub cerlmanythoughts
This is not the change the helots expect.

@{aristo “Easier to change what they expect than to put new demands on everyone else on the continent. We can improve the lives of the helotry in many other ways.” It’ll|“We’ll make other changes, too–things to make everyone’s lives easier and better. Punishment for abusers. Compensation for bearing the burden of sacrifice.” They’ll call you a traitor, but it’ll} take time to make more radical changes in the system that provides blood for ${wisardry}. You can’t meanwhile afford to starve the rebel mage corps you intend to train.

Let us hope they accept it. Cerlota does not look overly hopeful.
*goto darksols
#“We’ll select the folk to be Harrowed by lot.” That’s the only fair way.
*set wisgoal 4
“All of us get the benefits of the Wards, the harvests, the transport of grain and goods. So all of us should share the cost.”

*gosub cerlmanythoughts
This lottery will extend beyond the helotry?

“The helots would never accept still being the only ones to bear the burden. That’s what they’re rebelling to change.”

The other half of the continent will rebel to keep from being Harrowed. The freer, richer, more powerful half.

She’s probably not wrong, but you refuse to settle for anything less than fairness here. “One way or another, they’ll have no choice but to accept it.”
*goto darksols
#“We’ll blood-tax as many folk as we can, so we can Harrow fewer.”
*set wisgoal 6
*gosub cerlmanythoughts
It will be hard to sustain the unpopular work of the tax, when everyone knows you could exempt hundreds by Harrowing just a few more.

“$!{oath}, ${cername}. We’re talking about being bled for the sake of sparing lives. I think fewer people will resist that than you think.”

Cerlota just inclines her head. I hope you are correct.
*goto darksols
#We’ll Harrow a few children to spare a dozen times as many lives overall–as the Halassurqs do. But all I tell Cerlota is: “More justly.”
*set wisgoal 5
The ${erretsina} mage inclines her head sardonically. I am glad you have a plan.

Not if you knew what it was, segnura. “We’ve enough hurdles to cross today. Leave tomorrow’s for tomorrow.”
*goto darksols

*label cerlmanythoughts
You can tell that Cerlota has many more thoughts on this than she’s willing or able to @{(me_lit > 0) write down. All she writes|whisper now. All she says} is:
*return

Pretty sure we won’t, and that Game 3 will give the space we need to cover Shayard’s urban dynamics. :slight_smile: I’m still considering whether I’m inevitably committed to a 6 book structure now or whether I can condense some of what I’ve planned to get back to 5. We’ll see!


  1. Alas, he didn’t pull it off–you’ll probably all be happy to hear that I don’t intend Joel Havenstone to appear as a character in Game 5–but the first three Dark Tower books were a heck of a ride. ↩︎

  2. The remote steering of the Rim rebellion should also, if I write it well enough, give you growing sympathy for the Hegemony’s desire to have uniform systems and unquestioning obedience, as represented by Baldassare’s work in Irduin. ↩︎

  3. This split between Cerlota writing for a literate MC and “talking” to an illiterate one will continue throughout the section, but I’m condensing the rest of it here for improved forum readability. ↩︎

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I feel that Irduin isn’t falling into the trap of “The Slog” from WOT because there’s going to be a lot of character development and plot progression contained within a relatively short period of time, via confrontations we’ll have involving Auche, Tamran, Baldassare, Ulmey, Alasais, etc., the rim management sections with bandlead, the battle of the de Irde manor, the fight with Seichareis, and the flight to Grand Shayard.

The three concurrent plot threads characterizing the WOT slog during books 8-10 (Elayne’s Andor succession plot, Perrin’s Faile kidnapping plot, Egwene’s Rebel Aes Sedai plot) were frustrating because it felt like they were moving at a glacial pace and could have been resolved at a pace similar to the highs of the previous 5 books (Tear, Rhuidean, Battle of Cairhien and Caemlyn, Dumai’s Wells, Illian). The exploration into Andoran court politics, Shaido traditions, Aes Sedai intrigue was interesting but also hamstrung by the aforementioned lack of tangible progress for a long time, the feeling that these antagonists were kind of “small fry” in comparison to forces like the Shadow and the Seanchan, and the fact that readers at the time had to wait years between installments for resolutions to these plots while other fan-favorite arcs and characters like Rand and Mat were put on the backburner so to speak.

The Irduin section sidesteps much of these issues because a lot is about to happen within a relatively short time during the climax, we’re going to get an immediate tangible payoff to our preparations both during Rim Management and via supporting/undermining Irduin’s order, and our interactions with the setpiece of Irduin is laying much of the groundwork for the deeper ideological and state-building questions we’re going to be asking ourselves later on, so our time here doesn’t feel as much of a sideshow in retrospect. This is one thing I think the snippet you posted captures perfectly, along with other questions the MC can ask themselves in different focuses like the Laconnier myth question with the yeomen, the priesthood question with Ulmey and Korren, the aristos vs merchants questions with Strabaud, etc.

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Thanks for the vote of confidence. :slight_smile:

For anyone reading the last couple posts with sincere qualms that I am falling into the Jordan ditch: I want to hear your feedback too. I don’t have my eyes closed to the possibility. And especially once I post an update and you can see what it’s all adding up to in G2 terms, I want to hear what feels unsatisfying to you.

I’d originally thought Irduin would feel like the section of The Magic of Recluce where the harried protag spends several chapters practicing a carpenter’s craft in a remote village. I love that interlude. That’s not what Irduin has ended up being, though, and I hope what it’s turning into will be satisfying in a different way.

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I’ll admit that for the first year or two after the XOR2 WIP came out I was disappointed we had stepped away from the rebellion, and that I’ve been waiting with bated breath for the Rim management sections, but since we first got to read the Irduin chapter that disappointment has disappeared completely. I’m enjoying the change in pace, especially after the harrowing :wink: stint in the Xaoslands. I’m really invested in the characters and in making sure Irduin doesn’t fall apart, and in the fallout of everything that is happening. I’m also excited to start pulling on the threads being introduced like the smugglers in Shayard City or interacting more with the Cabelites. I won’t lie though, I’m most excited to get back to spreading my cult around

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I really appreciate how directly a lot of comments have been answered.

I don’t think I’ll make any friends for this take, and it could well just be a me thing - and do take whatever I say with a huge grain of salt, because I haven’t played the playtest in about a year and a bit. This is all just from my memory of the vibes, which could be quite off.

I remember being super excited about the Beyond-the-Ward section, and being really invested and interested in how the diverse societies beyond the wards were surviving and conflicting. Then, the cast of characters you can meet at Sojourn were also fascinating to me. They really helped to open up the world and put things into perspective. They also provided a strong opportunity for the perspective character to define themselves further, exploring new facets of their identity, and explore how their identity interacts with those around them. I was honestly a bit disappointed at how short the journey through the Xaos-lands felt, but what was present was extremely engaging.

Upon returning from the Xaos-lands, I actually found the journey along the more populated roads to be quite tense. It was a nice interlude.

However, I found Irduin, to put it bluntly, boring. Very, very boring. It could well just be a me thing - the quality of the writing was very much still there - but despite the undercurrents, and intrigue, I just couldn’t bring myself to care that much.

I think the problem is threefold.

One, Irduin is just…kinda sleepy. That’s probably the point. After the excitement and high-stakes story of the Xaos-lands, it almost feels like Irduin is a return to normality, despite the tensions in the village. It feels like an interlude overstaying its welcome.

Two, I couldn’t really care, because I struggled to see why my character would care that much - sure, it’s an opportunity to spread Rebellion™, in one form or another - but it’s just another village. Yeah, it’s a village with a unique dynamic, but the only character I could see getting properly invested in the situation is one that’s heavily invested in getting the Rebellion to catch on with the Nobility. Even then, it feels like a huge amount of attention being diverted to what feels like a fairly small, inconsequential place.

Thirdly, I feel like the cast is becoming too big for me, personally, to care about. I can name most of the characters from Uprising, even relatively minor ones. I can name a fair few people from the Xaos-lands, and Sojourn. But as the list of people that it is narratively indicated “these are important, you should remember and care about them” grows longer and longer, I feel like I as a reader have to either choose some to care about, or stop caring as much about any of them. Again, that could just be a me problem, but I am concerned that by the time the series is done there’s going to be a few hundred people with relationship trackers and I’ll only really care about maybe two dozen at most.

That being said, I do love your writing, and I am eagerly awaiting and excited for Stormwright - I’m just some random person on a forum, so I don’t expect you to care overmuch about what I’ve said, but please don’t take this as an excoriation of your work or style. I heavily caveated this at the beginning for a reason.

My final concern is that whilst I entirely understand your perspective on the “gardener not an architect” style, I am concerned that, if I recall correctly, Uprising took seven years, and it’s looking like Stormwright might take ten, despite covering less ground than originally intended - I first read Uprising on the smartphone I got for my thirteenth birthday, in November 2017. I’m now twenty-one, and I’ve read through Uprising dozens, if not hundreds, of times through my teenage years. I really don’t want to be retired before the series is concluded.

Edit: Apologies if any of this is incoherent, muddled, or otherwise of poor quality or tone - I wrote this halfway through a sleepless night with a fever and migraine brought on by covid. If there’s anything that’s unclear or odd please let me know and I’ll do my best to clarify.

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I really appreciate it, and I suspect others will too, if maybe quietly. :slight_smile:

I’m hopeful that when I’ve got Irduin and the Rim management sections done, the back half of G2 will feel different to your initial impressions. But we’ll have to see. I trust I’ll get your honest reactions then, too.

I’m not happy with the thought of finishing it in my own retirement. And I really really don’t want my kid to have to finish it for me one day. I don’t want any more friends whose feedback has shaped it to die before seeing where it all goes. :frowning:

But what I want most of all is to realize the vision I have for this project…and I’m ready to take the time to do that.

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