Choice of Rebels Part 1 WIP thread

Thanks, @WinterHawk–I’d already caught and fixed those in the alternative version where I’m updating Ch 3 as we speak, but I haven’t got round to fixing the demo.

While gendered surnames would make it more like our world’s historic Greece, it would add greater complexity to Karagon in a place I don’t want it. Complexity draws attention to itself; where I ask readers to get their heads around a detailed history, naming convention, philosophy, or other bit of worldbuilding, I’d like it to reinforce the themes of the game. And this doesn’t; Karagond culture shouldn’t be more gendered than Shayardene.

What I’m wondering is whether -atou has an overly modern ring to it, setting aside issues of gender. Assuming all nobles have an identical naming convention regardless of sex, would -atos or -os or something else be any different?

Personally I think all the namings, surname, first name, and titles is fine. I like them the way they are and have gotten used to and come to love them over the many playgroughs I’ve done.

@Havenstone
I like atos. Can’t really put my finger on why maybe it just sounds more Greek? I think it has a more noble ring to it…

@Havenstone, I don’t see how gendered surnames would drive more attention then the gendered titles kurios/kuria already do. And the given names are already gendered in both cultures. I think the attention would be drawn not to the cultural or genderal but to the linguistic differences between Shayarin and Koine:

Shayardene surnames aren’t gendered because they’re terms signifing occupations (that are gender neutral) in case of helot surnames or (apparently) derived from the place of origin for the nobles. I’m not sure what Karagond surnames mean, are these names supposed to be nouns or adjectives, or do they signify descent from a famous ancestor (for example Keria or Leila) or origin form a location with this name? It might help if you explained this.

If Karagond surnames are supposed to be nouns, they should definitely follow the same grammatical rules as the usual nouns and be declined according to the same pattern (-os/-a/-oi) that you’ve explained. Shayarin nouns are gender-neutral because Shayarin (=English) uses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declension less prominently then Koine (=Greek).

Anyway, it seems @Iello is a greater expert on greek names then me and I think s/he is the best person to advice you on this topic and help you to decide which ending, (-tou, -atos or something else), would be most appropriate.

@WinterHawk, I’ve encountered the phalangites too but only when my MC was an uneducated helot. Is there any possibility for the raid to go wrong with an intelligent MC who can use theurgy?

@WulfyK, I am pretty sure you can not be ambushed by them if you have 2 intellect. It seems like having 0 means you always fail and get ambushed; having one requires you to navigate the choices correctly; having 2 ensures that you don’t get ambushed, but can still fail to raid the tax collector.

@WinterHawk has it right; an INT 2 character will not need Theurgy, because s/he’ll have been sufficiently clever in getting the key info for the raid to succeed. As the raid description text suggests, “finding out the timing of the winter tax procession in advance will require clever, subtle inquiry,” i.e. INT.

If you have INT 1, things can go wrong… it depends partly on your own choice navigation, but partly on your rep established by prior choices, i.e. whether merchants and aristos all hate you. If so, the merchant and Ismene will sell you out. If not, they’ll be willing to help you.

And yes, with 0 INT the best possible outcome is failure to get the info in time to set up an ambush, and the worst outcome is getting jumped by Phalangites.

This is pretty much the only case so far where it’s a real disadvantage to have INT 0. Before the tax raid, INT was the natural dump stat, as there were raids where COM 1 and CHA 1 were useful, but nothing that differentiated INT 1 from INT 0.

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its been on my mind a while what is the max stat 10 for the whole game from first to the third book or was it five book?

6 will be the max stat–2 from book one and +1 from each subsequent one, if all you do is specialize…

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@Havenstone, While we are on the subject one thing I noticed, was that INT and CHA have one big check at 1 (Tax Raid for INT; Controlling the mob after beating Chirex for CHA) but COM has lots of little checks where 1 comes in handy. I don’t think it’s imbalanced just something I noticed.

I assume you still want most balance stuff to wait till after the next chapter since we can’t see a lot of the consequences and rewards for our decisions beyond just living through the winter.

Yes, I’m very aware that the game is currently unbalanced in several respects, and one of the main questions I’ll be asking my closed beta testers for the complete game is about whether it feels properly balanced – for different stat specializations, and for helots and aristos. But I think COM in particular will come into its own later: say, when you get the option to stand and fight the Thaumatarchy’s forces in the woods rather than just evading them.

Yes I was just double checking. Although the comment I had in didn’t have to do with the three core “gameplay” stats, I was just thinking about the anarchy checks (Are there any besides Simon/Suzanne vs Kalt/Kala) and gains.

I feel like COM CHA and INT are relatively balanced for the kind of rebellion you want to lead. If you pick COM you can already start putting the hurt on the empire, CHA helps you not starve will leading a peaceful rebellion, and INT is either but more fun.

The closed beta testing phase won’t start soon but I hope we’ll be able to help you to balance the game out.

Beside the MC’s own stats, the abilities of the fellow rebels should be taken into account. Having Breden with you could make up for low CHA and Zvad, S. de Firiac and Elery can balance out a low. COM. My impression is that having an INT of 2 is the best choice as it’s the only way to learn theurgy. Having CHA 2 and INT 1 allows to have lowest anarchy though.

I further have some more questions and suggestions, on various aspects of the game, just tell me if you want to hear them.

Fire away – I always welcome questions and suggestions. :slight_smile:

I can do it, but do you currently have enough free time to react on them? I don’t want to burden you too much if’ your busy with your baby and most things might require you to make some changes and add new choice options.

And you still haven’t commented on these two passages from my last post on the previous page:

"Does "no double standards about male and female unchastity/nudity" mean that the men also never go shirtless in Karagond, even if toiling in the summer heat? I definitely want to know more on their clothing."

 "Alastors usually carry clubs, but Gellard has a sword. Is this 'cause he's the captain or is he a master swordsman? Anyway, I hope the MC will meet him agian and defeat him. In Shayard City perhaps, as a mid-chapter"

Well, life is always full, so I don’t promise to react to all of them; but that doesn’t mean I’ve not read and benefited from them, or even that I won’t do something about them.

If I like the suggestion enough, it’ll definitely be worth the time it takes to make the change/add the choices – as earlier in the thread when people suggested adding the choice(s) as a noble not to like helots.

To answer your earlier good questions: no, women don’t work entirely shirtless, and low class men occasionally do. Breasts have an erotic significance in the nations of the Hegemony which a breastless chest does not. Whether that difference in the scope of nudity constitutes a gender double standard, I leave to your judgment. What Karagon does not have is any idea that female nakedness is more shameful or publicly unacceptable than male (per the historic reason you offered before that women didn’t get executed in ways involving public nudity), female chastity more essential, or female sex more in need of control.

Alastor captains are expected to know how to use a sword, but not all can afford one; Gellard having one suggests that he’s not poor. Whether or not he’s a master, you may well have a chance to discover. :slight_smile:

Because there’s an Oglaf for every occasion. http://oglaf.com/bitterfruit/ (NSFW)

Why is there a double standard in regards to nudity? Why do women’s chests have an erotic significance that men’s do not?

Women’s breasts at least have a function, whereas men’s chests only have aesthetic value. Do you not think that the glistening torsos of hard-working men, their perfect abs, their sculpted muscles, could be every bit as distracting, every bit as capable of inspiring lust, as the breasts of a woman?

What of breast-feeding? Is that something that must be done behind closed doors? Even by workers busy in the field?

Why is there this double-standard?

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Indeed, I find cute guys far more distracting than most women.

Oh, I’m surprised. When you mentioned the nudity taboo I thought it means a Victorian level of skin coverage for both genders with exposing unclothed legs and upper arms already considered a shameful thing. Now it seems the Canon only demands that the genitals and the female nipples shall be covered? Or must a certain percentage of the body be covered at one time? Like not uncovering all four limbs at once?

As @FairyGodfeather already made a good point about the treatment of male and female chests, I want to ask about other gendered clothing parts. Are the leggings worn only by the men? do women always wear skirts/dresses? Can men wear kilts or something similar? And are there any other clothes worn only by males or by females? What differences exist between noble and helot clothes and between the different regions?

Altogether, I strongly suggest you to add an entry on clothing to the world index.

Thank you for explaing Gellard’s sword here, but I think this should be done in-game to avoid the player’s confusion And I’m glad that the MC will have another encounter with him. I’m sure you can make him an interesting character.

I think this link will help with that.

http://www.legendsandchronicles.com/ancient-civilizations/ancient-sparta/spartan-clothing-and-dress/

Wasn’t it said somewhere that in Shayard and Karagon and presumably the rest of the world fashion is more reminiscent of the 16th century in general than ancient Greece. Also there has got to be some local variation Shayard being a mix of old England and France combined doesn’t seem to have the climate that would let one get away with wearing those sorts of clothes especially in the colder regions. Furthermore nudity in general does not seem to be as acceptable in Karagon and the rest of the gameworld as we know it compared to ancient Sparta.