Children of the Gods (Important poll #12306)

Same @ParrotWatcher. My MC is a Stepford Smiler. Their wrist tattoo can symbolize that hidden pain.

I was believe that they maybe do things traditionally but would play it differently out of spite. An example would be in the ceremony where the combatants would slash their palm, they would trace a part of their tattoo.

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Does your MC have medical proof for that claim? Simple antidepressant medications prescription don’t count, you need testimony from some witnesses that isn’t one of your kin, then you need to take a mental examination with several forensic mental health professionals with tests that are appropriated by the jurisdiction.

Even then, if your plea is found true, the best you can get is a reduced sentence, or a ‘trip’ to psychiatric facility for an indeterminate period of time

You can’t just claim “I’m not mentally sound during the confrontation” in front of a court, and hope to get away with it, even ignoring the fact that you can claim that you are mentally ill is a proof to the contrary (different story if your lawyer declared it for you while you just sit there and do nothing), murder, conscious or not, mentally sound or not, is for all intents and purposes, murder.

Will we be able to kill her?? Please say yes. :imp:

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I don’t know. Rohie didn’t elaborate much on our best/boy/girlfriend after that. I’m not even sure if that Seeker is still alive or not.

I hope she is though because Leigh (my MC) want retribution.

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@idonotlikeusernames is most likely aware that murder is murder, excused by self-defense or not. Your entire argument is based on he said/she said hearsay with one of the two witnesses to the murder being dead. Up on the roof, after the MC retreated and had no where to go, the assailant decided to further attack, intent established… at that point in time, the defendant simply defended herself from the murderous raged assailant and when the incident ended, the assailant lay dead on the rooftop.

There was no further retreat possible nor were there any other witnesses to gainsay events as described by the defendant - all the forensics point to self-defense excuse, none to any other theory.

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There was a dove… I wonder what it would say, if it could talk…

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Your mentally sound case won’t work, not only will you need proof but that’s usually only going to reduce a sentences or send you to a psyche ward. There has been a number of times where people claimed insanity an got a longer sentence so they could go get “help.” You did kill him so would it be a kangaroo court anyway? Maybe if you didn’t but…

I’m not blaming Hermes until I find out he is trying to kill me.

You know that @idonotlikeusernames is a lawyer like me do you? Like it sounds really funny hear you complain a lawyer about lacking of juridical law knowledge. You have to understand that concepts as legitimacy defense change a lot from a country to another. I am not versed in Usa but for the concepts i picked from international laws it is in fact there legit autodefense. Due the guy repetitive tried to kill us he striked first and he didn’t surrender publicaly.
Either way Gods laws are not ones here and If they still be like they once were Still operates Talion law and the right of auto defense in the sense of return same force.

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Actually now that I think about it we hit him first right?
He chases us then attacks us when we use magic,
Yeah we did. Another reason to apologize to Sage.

Apart from most of this being moot, due to this being one of the most clear-cut text book examples of self-defense I have ever seen.

You are confusing mental illness with the most severe cases of dementia, senility and psychosis here. Many mentally ill people are sufficiently aware of their condition to discuss it lucidly. Particularly in many cases of PTSD the “insanity” only truly manifests itself when people are highly stressed out, such as when being hunted by vicious and relentless little killers.
While it is true this would usually only reduce the sentence, the important point is that it can help avoid a custodial sentence entirely. Modern psychiatrists, at least over here, prefer to treat everybody including “convicts” on an out-patient basis whenever possible to either keep them integrated into society or else help them integrate. To that end if this were a Dutch criminal case my mc would most likely be looking at treatment in what is called a “half open” institution, where one can leave for school or work during the day but they have to check in every night (and are usually treated in the weekends whenever possible). To my mc actually living on Olympus in a room with a spying, annoying roommate in a room he doesn’t even have the keys to already is a lot like living in such an institution.
And considering the mc is and was a minor when committing the alleged offense his records would likely be purged upon successful completion of his treatment.

I wouldn’t likely need to plead PTSD at all, if this where anywhere near a competent modern court then the Olympus (Greek) courts exercise of jurisdiction here would be highly shaky, considering we both killed Saxon in the US and are, for all intents and purposes a US citizen. The Oympus court seems to be basing its jurisdictional competence here solely on the fact that Saxon was an Olympus/Greek citizen, which is a very weak claim, particularly considering they have no actual evidence against us.

Which is the main problem with everything on Olympus it’s not a free and fair jurisdiction and our trial will in all likelihood be more like the old witch hunt “trials”. Maybe we’ll get a drowning or “trial by fire” test. If we float on or above the water or don’t burn then we’ll be executed for being a witch, if on the other hand we drown or burn then our guilt or innocence is “not conclusively proven either way” but we’ll still be equally dead for it.

Most likely, yes?
Just think about it: we’re most likely presumed guilty until we prove ourselves to be innocent. We are tried by people who are already prejudiced against us, likely not given a lawyer, etc.
Then there is its weakest point: the basis of its Jurisdiction. It seems to be asserting jurisdiction here on the principle of passive nationality, that is Saxon was a citizen of Olympus/Greece. The problem with this kind of jurisdiction, particularly when applying it to foreign nationals is that it can be extraordinarily hard for the accused to properly defend himself in a country where they know neither the law nor often the language and therefore have a high chance of not being able to obtain proper legal counsel. More practically using this kind of Jurisdiction also makes it potentially very hard to obtain proper evidence as the scene of the crime would by definition have been outside of the area where the court normally has jurisdiction. Therefore it is best avoided, unless there is already a enough evidence available or the jurisdiction where the alleged criminal acts actually took place is either willing (or forced) to cooperate.

Any competent lawyer would therefore first raise the question of jurisdiction and argue that the court is not competent to try this case since my mc both committed the alleged criminal acts in the US and is himself, for all intents and purposes, a US citizen. So, unless the US authorities have explicitly agreed to cooperate with access to evidence and to transfer this case to Olympus/Greece the appropriate venue would be a US court and the appropriate legal standards would be US self-defense law(s) and jurisprudence.

Then there is the fact that their case against the mc is extremely weak, even if we did kill Saxon, they don’t know that and really short of mind-rape they can’t know that. Even the dagger is circumstantial evidence at best. How did my mc obtain the dagger? Maybe he found it while dumpster diving (and it was dumped there by whoever killed or made the other “seekers” disappear too).

So in short, barring guilty until proven innocent they even lack the proper evidence to even bring a case, that combined with the fact that whatever “court” or judicial system Olympus has is likely to dismiss all common legal standards as “procedural niceties” likely makes it possibly the very textbook definition of a Kangaroo court for our mc’s as whether something is a Kangaroo court or not depends on how the court conducts itself, not on the actual guilt or innocence of the people brought before it.

From Wikipedia: “A kangaroo court is a judicial tribunal or assembly that blatantly disregards recognized standards of law or justice” ,which is very likely the kind of “justice” we’ll be subject to on Olympus.
It says absolutely nothing either way about the guilt or innocence of the persons brought before it regarding what they are accused of having done.

Well my field is Dutch criminal law (with a minor in EU law) so I do have a distinct lack of legal knowledge when it comes to say US tax law (which is apparently so hideously complex it gives the professors who teach it at Ivy League nightmares) or the subject I dreaded most during the one time I was forced to take it: Commercial mergers and acquisitions (even if that is the field where a shit ton of money can be made quickly over here).

Fun fact our self-defense jurisprudence places a fairly strong, some might even say disproportionate, emphasis on the duty of a reasonable adult to yield or retreat and if not on the proportionality of force used. However even under our strict interpretation of the right to self-defense being cornered on a rooftop by a clearly homicidal maniac who has been relentlessly chasing us for years now would nevertheless be a clear case of self-defense, even killing him is arguably a proportional use of force since he was out to do the same to us as he was clearly after our life here, not our car or wallet or other, mere material possession.

Which is very true of course and the Netherlands has the distinction of having one of the least permissive interpretations of the right to self-defense.
From my understanding many US states have so-called “stand your ground laws” that eliminate the reasonable duty to retreat or yield, which would make our defense against Saxon truly a legal no-brainer. .

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It’s interesting to see how many people did decide to kill Saxon this time around…that leads me to wonder, how many are you really?

So, who of you did kill Saxon/the Seeker?

  • My MC did kill Saxon
  • My MC didn’t kill Saxon

0 voters

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To be fair, I think the gods could probably claim jurisdiction over the entire world… I mean, who’s going to stop them?

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He actually doesn’t attack us until we use magic after we hit him in the face with our dumpster lifting strength. I think we’re in the wrong here… though I’d like to avoid a trial in the first place and the only one who I’d think would charge me is Sage… who I’m trying to romance anyway.

Though I think the stress stat might help us with court…

True, but circumventing all commonly agreed upon legal principles and protections does make whatever court they conjure up for us the very definition of a Kangaroo court.
The fact that they probably actually lack the evidence in order to even charge us with a crime, let alone convict us of said crime only reinforces this further.

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Except they have precedents reaching back aeons. To them, human legal systems are the true kangaroo courts.

This, however, is certainly true. Well, until someone notices the dagger, that is. (And I imagine they’ll find it even if we didn’t pick it up.)

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Not at all, as I said before, my mc could simply claim he found the damned thing while dumpster diving, they don’t actually have any proof that says otherwise.

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You know with Oracles, magic and Gods in the mix I wonder how much evidence they need to find? Lying to people like that seem like a bad ending.

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Yes, but it’s still evidence, something that they don’t actually have any of otherwise (aside from all the magic that they don’t appear to have thought of; thanks @Dark_Stalker). And while evidence is not proof, it is evidence, and that’s all they need.

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Considering how notoriously cryptic the old oracles used to be in the stories I doubt it, particularly considering the fact that compared to the truly omniscient, monotheistic God of Christianity actual omniscience is the one thing the old Gods seem to have a distinctive lack of. In any cases the oracles predictions would be so vague, cryptical and of dubious veracity that they would have no legal value whatsoever, except in a true kangaroo court.

How will they know? Mind-rape again would be a very unethical thing that really proves whatever “trail” they concoct for us to be a Kangaroo court (though it should clear us of the mass-murder charges at least since Saxon is the only seeker, prior to Saint and his little pack that my mc actually laid a hand on).
Besides there have been enough stories about people lying to the Greek (and Egyptian and Norse) gods of old and getting away with it (for a while at least). Again this is a very important distinction with the Jewish and Christian god, the Jewish one in particular who would know everything and proceed to instantly smite you for it. Then again he also wouldn’t be afraid of a mere Titan. :wink:

With lack of anything more substantial it would still be a very short trial as it would still be a stretch to even get an indictment, however actually taking a case to trial solely on the dagger that my mc will claim he found while dumpster diving as the sole piece of evidence by the prosecution will likely get the case thrown out then.

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Mind-rape and or reading is definitely a good source of evidence despite the morality of it. I would think that’s the only thing they’d need to do for it. As long as it’s conducted by a neutral party or someone forced to tell the truth. Plus who knows what magic they have? Maybe all they need to do is cast a truth spell or display our memories on a television.
Plus we don’t have a prior knowledge for Godly court affairs to know if it wold be kangaroo or not a we would be ignorant.

I was just saying Gods probably have some way of figuring everything out, maybe a god(dess) of truth or lies, law etc…

And since we’re the one who started the conflict with the seeker…