This is so…depressing. No-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel depressing; but it’s very relevant to the future predicaments that will be presented in the game.
In regards to Aphrodite, I think I’ve said (probably about every Goddess in Greek mythology) that she’s one of my favorites. I think she has mastered the art of covert attacks. She’s a mastermind in my opinion, and one of the most powerful Gods in the pantheon. The ability to manipulate other’s feelings through lust and love? Arguably an unmatched skill. Wars are started through desire, after all.
In my case, it wasn’t underestimating her that caught me off guard; to me, there has to be a good amount of cunning and intelligence to use one’s charm effectively (and, you know, she’s a Goddess of charm). it was just the realization that of having her as a enemy is EVEN WORSE than I could imagine (and it already crossed my mind it was a horrible outcome). And it took my 8th time playing through of this game to reread her words and for my mind to finally process “Holy Hera, this woman’s threatening me !” (though at the same time, I was always at first like “why does line feel funny”?)
She doesn’t seem too keen about knowing you were a person (possibly) close to her sister during the Trojan War (wonder if she holds some resentment about how attached Helen could’ve been, considering she had mourned you for about 60 years and refused to talk with Aphrodite for centuries, all the while blaming her for something related to the Bearer).
Of course Aphrodite blames the Bearer. She is literally incapable of taking the blame for anything. Do you SEE the havoc she has caused in various myths?
The woman is super narcissistic. Shouldn’t be narcissism, should be aphroditism.
Do you think that was what Adonis was referencing to when the Bearer asks about Aphrodite’s dislike toward them? Or do you think even he’s underestimating her a little?
Honestly, I hope the Gods underestimate the Bearer more. Let them have that victory. It’ll be more entertaining when they see how wrong they were.
I remember in the beginning I thought, “why don’t they kiss ass? Their life is on the line.” But then I realized how they never had to do that before and have so much pride.
Kudos to you for having this mindset; I applaud you. But I also find it singularly hard to believe that what you have ignored up until this point in your life you will be able to continually avoid until the end of time. [/quote]
See that’s the thing. I have free agency. I don’t ignore things, I deal with them, and by dealing with them I take control over my life and feel far better about myself as a result.
[quote][quote=“P_Tigras, post:4426, topic:15482”]
Relationships are a source of interaction and stimulus, and when you enjoy that interaction and stimulus it can make you happy. But don’t expect relationships to be a “source” of happiness or you’ll tend to be very disappointed.
[/quote]
Okay, I’m going to have to take your word for this one; I’m a 23 year old aro/ace, I’ve never had a relationship in my life. I’m approaching this entire topic from a theoretical standpoint, which admittedly is one of the methods in my life I can approach with the most skill. [/quote]
Some things have to be felt to be fully understood when the language just isn’t specific enough to give one a precise understanding. I still find it difficult to wrap my head around people who are aro/non-ace because romance can mean so many different things to different people.
[quote][quote=“P_Tigras, post:4426, topic:15482”]
I don’t buy this. Not everyone reacts to pain by becoming callous. The better you understand your own emotions and how to avoid digging yourself into emotional pitholes that are difficult to climb out of, the better your ability to feel emotions intensely without being crippled by them.
[/quote]
Correction: not everyone reacts to pain by becoming callous in the time frame that they’re given. I don’t deny that there are people who react to pain by refusing to let it conquer them, but standing up against the face of pain for 30, 40, maybe 50 years is an entirely different ball game to standing up against the face of pain for the rest of eternity.[/quote]
When you enter a place you’ve never been to before, especially one that is vastly different from anything you’ve previously experienced, it can be rather overwhelming. The same goes for emotions that you’re feeling for the first time, including the pain of loss. Your brain learns and grows better able to accommodate experiences that you’ve felt previously as you become increasingly familiar with them. The human brain is highly adaptable, but not all adaptations are positive however. Some can be self-destructive, such as a person who starts cutting themselves to deal with pain or stress.
As I’ve said previously, I find myself growing less callous as I get older. So I find it a very interesting dichotomy that I now bounce back from loss much more rapidly even as I tend to find myself tearing more often. I’ve lost my fear of pain, in fact there is a part of me that sees pain as not only something I will once again live through as I’ve lived through so many times in the past, but as a fitting and worthy tribute to what has been lost. The more pain I feel, the greater the tribute. I don’t bottle it up. I allow myself to feel every last bit of it and cry if I feel the urge. I do not carry it on my back for the rest of my life however. I let it go, and I don’t feel bad for letting go. That’s not to say that I won’t at times pick it back up and think about times past, but thinking back and appreciating someone’s contributions to my life is not the same thing as dwelling on the loss to the point where I dig myself into an emotional rut.
I think a key difference between myself now and my younger self is that a greater understanding of my own emotions has made me more at peace with myself, and that gives me a greater ability to direct those same emotions along more constructive modes of thought. Quite frankly I’ve lost my fear of loss. I expect it now as part of life, and I don’t run away from it because that would be a disrespectful to those I’ve lost. In my mind at least, they deserve every last tear I shed for them. Those tears are my tribute to the impact they had on my life.
I think it has less to do with willpower than your sense of perspective. I don’t force myself to do or not do anything. I simply ride my emotions out like a wave that crests and breaks before receding back into the depths of my emotional self. And in the end, I find myself still standing, just as I always have in the past.
That sounds rather monotonous, but I suppose immortality might allow the creation of such situations if one is not careful or simply unlucky…
I wouldn’t attempt to circumvent them. I’ve lost my fear of loss.
[quote][quote]
To an immortal, boredom and eunni are bigger issues than emotional callousness in my mind. Relationships are a way to gain much needed interaction and stimulation to keep the eunni away.
[/quote]
Exactly. At what point has an emotionally mature human being ever seen a relationship as protection against boredom? [/quote]
That sounds like an ex of mine. In hindsight I suspect she was not only jaded but aro as well because she didn’t have a romantic bone in her body. I don’t think she was emotionally immature, that was just how she was wired.
It doesn’t have to turn into a game. The immortal can be quite seriously involved for the duration of the relationship.
Some will, but not all. It really boils down to the individual immortal. Because of the power differential it is very easy to look at mortals as toys, just as it used to be very easy for kings to look at their spouses and lovers as toys. That doesn’t mean the king must look at their spouse or lover as a toy. The same goes for immortals.
[quote][quote]The happy drugs your body releases when you “fall in love” don’t last an entire mortal’s lifetime, let alone the potential forever of an immortal’s lifetime. That’s just the way it works. Becoming immortal would have little effect on that.
[/quote]
True; but that doesn’t mean your body forgets how it feels. If it did, you wouldn’t be able to grow emotionally, which I’m assuming is a goal of life. If you were immortal, you may feel the same as you did a billion years ago, but you would be much less willing to engage in a relationship as you were back then; you’ve gone through so much more stuff. If you can go through a billion years and still have no problem having emotional relationship after emotional relationship, then I struggle to believe that your attitude would still remain the same.
[/quote]
I disagree. When you’re a teen you don’t yet have a strong sense of self, you’re rebelling against authority to establish yourself as an independent human being, but the person you’re becoming isn’t yet fully formed emotionally. Any relationship you have as a teen will have a HUGE effect on you because your experiences are so limited. As you get older, your sense of self strengthens, and new relationships have less ability to impact who you are. The older you get, the smaller the piece of your life a single year or even an entire decade is. A new relationship won’t have as much impact on a thousand year old as it will on a twenty year old. That doesn’t mean the older individual is necessarily more callous, it only means they have a far stronger sense of self and are not so easily influenced in ways that run counter to the person they’ve become.
I actually feel like the best way to look at all of this immortal/mortal love stuff is to just think about Doctor Who. I actually think there are quite a few similarities between it and this game. (had an epiphany when someone mentioned companions)
The Doctor is essentially immortal in the sense that every time he dies, his soul gets regenerated into a new body. Same as MC. He’s had countless companions in each of his lives and I’m sure he loved every single one in their own way. Some (cough rose) more than others perhaps… and all of those people he has had to leave behind because they simply couldn’t stay with him forever.
I agree with @squarelyblue and maybe I just have a very idealistic view of the world, but I do think all love is meaningful. When you love someone, whether it be romantic or otherwise, they become a part of you. I’d even use the trite cliche of “they hold a special place in your heart”. Everything ends some way or another, but as sad as it is, you have to keep going. Those happy memories should fuel you to want to find a connection like that again. It won’t be the same of course, but it’s certainly incredible in its own special way.
I wouldn’t blame anyone for having a jaded view of love. People can be cruel, but they can also surprise you. There are definitely people out there who could completely change your perception if you just give them the chance.
And as good ol’ Dr. Seuss would say; “Don’t cry because it’s over, smile because it happened.”
Clearly? Humans are just another form of animal, and I don’t see pets as some lesser life form, just different to humans. I don’t hold human life in some high regard above animals. They’re less developed in terms of thinking, but that’s not even my point; my point is that when somebody says pet, you wouldn’t think “oh, so she shares a house with the pet” you’d think “oh, she owns a pet”. I’m more intelligent than a lot of people, but that doesn’t mean that I see the people less intelligent than me as less developed or even a lesser human than I am. In the world, it is an undeniable fact that pets are purported as such so that humans can buy them; the people that think of cats as cherished friends and companions may be right, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t see them as property. If you buy something, no matter how strong the emotional attachment to that thing, that thing is your property. It’s not a matter of how you see the thing or emotions that you may feel, it’s a matter of fact.
Once again, this is a very mortal mindset. You do this now, but dealing with something constantly for untold years will eventually numb your response to it, and when you’re immortal, mortal matters such as this would inevitably become a nuisance in the face of your immortality.
That may be, but that doesn’t mean that every form of romance doesn’t have an overarching meaning to all. Happiness can mean so many different things to so many different people, but the unifying goal is to find happiness, regardless of how you get there. [quote=“P_Tigras, post:4453, topic:15482”]
I’ve lost my fear of pain, in fact there is a part of me that sees pain as not only something I will once again live through as I’ve lived through so many times in the past, but as a fitting and worthy tribute to what has been lost.
[/quote]
Once again, this is a very mortal standpoint; a standpoint like this is admirable but ultimately temporary. You experience pain in your life and you think that it’s a testament to the good times you had. But what happens when it gets to the point that that pain is all you remember? You’ll never get to that point because you’re not immortal, and if you’ve lost your fear of pain in such a short time span in comparison to the rest of time itself them I dread to think how your coping mechanisms will adjust over the course of several billion years.
But again…that isn’t sustainable for eternity. This is a mechanism that you can implement only temporarily. Your argument seems to be you telling me what you yourself do to deal with emotional turmoil, and while that’s all well and good, you seem to be avoiding the topic in the process; how would you handle it for the rest of eternity? If you’re of the mindset that what you do now is what you would do for the rest of eternity with no variations then that’s even worse because you wouldn’t see your own sociopathy coming. Eventually, emotions would become far too trivial to ‘ride out like a wave’, and that method would come crashing down. Not unlike a wave. [quote=“P_Tigras, post:4453, topic:15482”]
I wouldn’t attempt to circumvent them. I’ve lost my fear of loss.
[/quote]
If you truly have completely lost your fear of loss, then you’re kind of aiding my point; you wouldn’t be afraid to get emotionally involved anymore because you’ve accepted the inevitable pain as part of life? Again, fast forward a billion years and that will have exacerbated to the point where it won’t mean anything anymore.
This is slightly ambiguous, I’m not entirely sure which part your ex would believe. Does she believe that an emotionally mature person wouldn’t see a potential relationship as a barrier for boredom or she would? Because any person who sees a relationship as that rather than an actual relationship is already more jaded than the average mortal would be, but even less jaded than an immortal would be.
But again…temporary solution. They could become seriously invested in the relationship, but you do anything enough times and it starts to lose its charm.
That’s a hypothetical situation, and I agree with it. I actually used the same example in an earlier discussion about how we would use ultimate power. But as simple as that is in theory, can you imagine how difficult it must be not to see someone so insignificant to you as an ant you could easily crush? A major power difference will ultimately corrupt, and if you’re immortal then it’s the same; say you’re a billion years old and you meet somebody who’s twenty. As taken as you may be with them, the difference in power would ultimately lead to you seeing yourself as superior. It’s easy to imagine a perfect way of going about things in theory, but it’s much different in practice.
That’s exactly my point; exactly. As you get older and older, the relationships you have would have less and less ability to impact who you are, and if you’re immortal then this would keep going and going until no relationship has the ability to affect you at all, which is the mindset I’m talking about.
To you. Your sense of self would ultimately be strengthened and I’m not denying that, but the hallmark of a sociopath or a psychopath is the fact that they think there is nothing wrong with them. How might your sense of self appear to the other person? If you have indeed strengthened yourself over the past billion years, how can you be sure that it’s happening in a good way? You’ll think it is, but it might not be to anyone else. Especially if you’re less influenced; you’ll see this as being hardened to the hurt you may feel, but the other person and everyone else may see this as the stubbornness of an immortal, believing that because you’ve been around the block more times you know what’s best for you. And this is what being jaded would mean; it doesn’t have to mean you give up on love, it could also mean that how you define love and what you feel in regards to love has become so warped and twisted over time that it’s no longer compatible to anybody else. If mortal people are capable of that, then I dread what an immortal person might make this.
I don’t buy my animal companions. They’re all rescues. I don’t see the point in buying a pet when there are so many lovable animals in need of a good home. My cat was originally a hungry feral kitten who I made friends with by feeding her daily until she eventually overcame her fear of me, started rubbing up against me, and allowed me to pet her. So you made yet another mistaken assumption.
With all due respect, as a mortal yourself, you have no more idea than anybody else what an immortal mindset would be like. Your supposition is no better or stronger than anyone else’s supposition. All any of us can do is come at it from our own experiences. And you make lots of assumptions. Why would I as an immortal deal with something constantly for untold years when I can easily change things up whenever I choose? Why would pain be all that I as an immortal remember when there is so far more to life than just pain? You throw a lot of things out there without building a case for any of them, and as a result I don’t find your argumentation particularly compelling.
I don’t think anybody here is jaded about love. Love isn’t meaningless. What Sherlock and I have been emphasizing is that the pain of losing love A BILLION TIMES will be enough to bring anyone down. No matter who you are or how high-and-mighty you are about your feelings, you will get worn down by the passage of time.
This isn’t so much about love, in my opinion, as it is about the sheer magnitude that is immortality. The Bearer is a mortal with the opportunity to become not just immortal, in the sense that souls in the Underworld are immortal (which they have never had the opportunity to be) but immortal in the godly sense. They will be the same person as an immortal as they were as a mortal.
The question isn’t a matter of whether love will have meaning, but of how long it will have meaning. Nobody is debating that love is important or doesn’t have meaning. We’re debating whether a person will be able to treat their 50 billionth significant other as…well…significant. I don’t think anybody would. Look at Zeus. He’s boned a trillion people, and probably can’t name more than ten of them. Same goes for most of the other gods. They’re only remotely sane because of the relationships they have with each other.
Were the Bearer to destroy the gods…they’d have…no one, except Aeson.
Nobody is sane enough to continue to treat their significant others as humans.
Also, @P_Tigras you came off slightly rude when you said [quote=“P_Tigras, post:4453, topic:15482”]
On the other hand I’ve known plenty of people who consider humans just another form of animal, who think their pets are brighter than a lot of humans, and who don’t consider their pets their “property” so much as their cherished friends and companions.
[/quote]
I don’t think that was the intent, but it struck me as very harshly worded, as did some of your other points in that response.
And…to actually speak on that point, I don’t know a single person who treats their pet as anything more than an animal. They’re a part of the family, but they’re still not a contributing member of society. For someone to equate an animal with a human…disturbs me. (And I volunteer at animal shelters and have two pets). EDIT: on the topic of animals being lesser life forms – I’m sorry, but as a person with a license in childcare, I will save the life of the worse-behaved student over my personal pet. No questions asked. Animals are wonderful companions, with thoughts and feelings, but they A) don’t have long lives and B) can hardly be considered sentient. Humans are animals, yes, but we are sentient. That’s the difference, and why I hold human life above animal life.
Anyway, what Sherlock and I are getting at is that the Bearer would lose the true meaning of a connection after the nth romance. It wouldn’t have to be even in the first billion years–but it would happen eventually. Nobody can handle that.
No…unless the Bearer falls in love with (and has that love reciprocated by) Aeson or a god(dess), they will inevitably lose sight of what real, lasting relationships are.
…Wouldn’t a friendship be sufficient enough, too? It’s not as if romantic relationships are worth more than friendships… Or would last forever even when both parties are technically immortal…(friendships don’t last forever either, but well that’s in that example not the point, I guess?)
So pretty much all talk about MC becoming callous because they have no possebility to build longlasting relationships anyway becomes superfluous, considering that they anyway are not the sole and only immortal being. (Expect they make it so)
If they betray the gods against Aeson’s will, after becoming immortal, destroying all the gods…the Bearer will have no one. Aeson wouldn’t kill himself to kill the Bearer, I don’t think–not unless the Bearer is trying to destroy the world, rather than just be its new god.
And it is entirely possible that you could piss off Aeson and spent your eternity lonely, with only the fleeting mortals for company.
If they are not able to make others immortal themselve. And if they are able to just kill the gods. (Or strip them off their immortality, but in that case why not just one day give up your own immortality?)
And that anyway sounds like someone that is not that interestet in building long lasting relationships??
Also relationships end all the time, even without someone dying.
For a second I thought you meant the original Queen Elizabeth, and I was like “no, she trained her King Charles Cavaliers to make out with her, not adopt corgis.”
I often forget the current queen is still alive. Isn’t she like 700, now? I swear she’s been reigning for 4 generations of my family.
!” (though at the same time, I was always at first like “why does line feel funny”?)
