Black Lives Matter

I’m reading this thread and none of you are getting it. The police as institution needs to be erased. George Floyd was murdered and the policed did what they always do. Cover for one another. This is why no DA chose to prosecute, the coroner blamed his death on pre existing conditions, and no judge issued warrants for the murderers arrest. The system is/was working as intended.
A lot of yall seem to only care because you see WHite people getting treated the same way my ancestors and I have been treated for GENERATIONS!! I see y’all and it’s sick

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If anyone has any great resources/information on the racial disparities in the United States or any other country but especially the US, I could really use them right now. I got into a heated discussion over BLM and race in general with someone I love deeply. He said some things I never imagined could come out of his mouth, and I managed to convince him that maybe he doesn’t have all the facts, but he is very emotionally invested in it as you might expect, denies that white privilege exists, thinks that BLM is a racist group, thinks that systematic racism is non-existent, etc. I am trying to message him privately about it as I told him I would and he agreed to at least attempt to understand so now I’m scrambling to collect my thoughts, steal myself for the taxing conversation because thus far it has been very painful and gut-wrenching, and gather the best information available that he can watch or read. I believe in the incredible importance and power of education so giving up is not an option unless he forces me to do so, but I am struggling honestly because I feel like I’m having to unpack and sort years of baggage with a blindfold on or something. Plus, I’m ugly crying inside, possibly outside too.

@HipHipHooray I never said I haven’t inconvenienced myself by researching. There’s just thousands of sources out there, and it’s most likely that many on here have several I’ve never and maybe never would have heard of. It’s also likely many on here have read or watched something that personally sparked change in them. It never hurts to narrow the search by reaching out for help. Especially since I’m emotional right now. I’m not white. I don’t really know what would be most likely to sway the mind of a conservative, white man. Look it up is rather rude and unhelpful to say when I did nothing to you.

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And what exactly do you suggest Law Enforcement be replaced with? Because we can’t exactly not have law enforcement.

Things need change I wont argue that. Not only with police but politicians who stand by and don’t push through any reforms and instead do what they do best: Say a lot of words that mean nothing.

But removing Police isn’t productive. While there are issues, a lot of them. Crime is also an issue and removing police will obviously just… make things worse there [with crime]?

The reason for reform is to fix the issue rather than just remove something in its entirety, something that has a required purpose. Which is keeping law and order, fighting crime and keeping peace.

Their purpose isn’t to kill black people as you said.

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To be honest, the camera only broadcast what they are doing. It doesn’t stop the crime. Just like it has been shown that a rapist will still rape, even if a camera is right there.

And really, sending them to jail doesn’t bring back the dead either.

One of the thing they could do, is if an officer has many misconduct (which has been shown) they just let them keep the badge. Hello???

And harsher punishement. Beside jail, get ride of their pensions and benefit. The person that died won’t provide for their families, so why would the cop once he killed someone? Dishonor them for pete sake.

And who gonna take care of the criminals then ?

I get you are angry. But you are lashing out at the wrong peoples, in the wrong place .

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Read Black people work. Use Google. The resources are out there and readily available. If you really care inconvenience yourself and look it up. Here’s a start https://t.co/M7TeBn54h3?amp=1

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Honestly that’s why I think something similar to “Hate Crime” but for police would be ideal. “Abuse of Authority Crime”? No idea what the name would be.

But the idea is that Officers who abuse their authority to cause undue harm as they do in situations like this aren’t let off easy. But punished more for their actions. They are clearly abusing their authority and the public trust. They need to be held more accountable not less.

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@anon21485497 This article lists resources for white people specifically to educate themselves on their privilege, how their privilege benefits them and hurts–even unconsciously–people of color, and how they can do better confronting their position in a society of white supremacy and how they can use their privilege to help POC.

@HannahPS also shared this article on Tumblr on how white people can help racial justice, and these resources on anti-racism.

Thanks for speaking out and advocating for the movement to your friend. I know it can be heart-wrenching and sickening to confront the fact that someone you care about and love harbors ingrained racist ideas, prejudice, or ignorance. But voices speaking out, not giving up, and not backing down are part of what we need right now, so stay strong!

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I’m going to pause this until I get home.

If you think that police exist to protect you or your loved ones, you are wrong. There is a long history of case law that establishes that police have no duty to protect your life.

So, in short, police can kill you with impunity (because of qualified immunity) while having no obligation to protect you.

What purpose do they serve, then?

To go to @HipHipHooray’s point, police in the United States and other Western countries exist in order to enforce racial and class hierarchies and to defend property. (Here is a surprisingly cogent history of policing in the US.) The abuse of black bodies by this system is not a bug; it is a feature.

(A substantive argument has been made that the Irish “became white” by joining the police and beating on black people long enough and hard enough that white culture finally decided they were a-ok.)

When slavery was ended in the United States, and Reconstruction was scuttled by the increasing indifference of Northern whites to black plight, a series of laws were passed that codified racism and white supremacy in ways that circumvented the victories of the Civil War.

You might have heard of a drug called marijuana? Marijuana was specifically outlawed because it was consumed by black and brown folks and gave the white state the authority to criminalize previously acceptable activity. Famously, the same amount of crack and cocaine produced wildly difference sentences, because one was consumed by blacks and the other by whites.

The 13th Amendment specifically allows prisoners to be compelled to work without compensation. The white state adds insult to injury by declaring these individuals “felons” and thenceforth deprives them of the right to vote–both during their prison terms and frequently for long periods afterwards.

Further, people in prison are counted (assiduously) in the census, and their count goes to services and Congressional representation in white rural districts? Districts in which they are not allowed to vote? Services which their families no doubt need, but instead are being provided to the people that are imprisoning them? If that doesn’t ring any bells, allow me to refresh your memory: the Three-Fifths Compromise.

Right now, in my opinion, police are mostly extortion rackets, patronage mills, and sustained grifts. A city councilman of Minneapolis explained in a Twitter thread how threatening to not vote for an increase in the city police budget produced a notable work slowdown by the police in his district. Here in New York, the Sergeant’s union doxxed the mayor’s daughter for daring to protest them.

The message was clear: cross us at your peril. And De Blasio folded! He has literally blamed protesters for putting themselves in harm’s way, and said that the police “showed a lot of restraint.”

The only cop that I can remember being successfully convicted of a crime in connection with the death of a civilian was, admittedly, in Minnesota. But it was only when a black, immigrant cop shot a white woman.

The idea that body cameras are a panacea is a canard. In New York, in particular, some 35% of police officers—including the MTA police—aren’t required to wear one. And those that do…well, the footage basically never makes it into evidence. What’s the point of a body camera if it is only used by the state?

In short, in my opinion, police budgets need to be cut by some 60%. And the remaining officers should be prioritizing things like organized crime, white-collar crime, corruption, tax evasion, trust-busting, and white supremacist/white nationalist violence. Obviously, this would have to go hand-in-hand with things like the legalization of drugs and sex work; reparations for Native Americans and the descendants of enslaved Africans; the enfranchisement of prisoners and ex-felons; the banning of weapons of war from private ownership; a living wage and Medicare-for-All; and the allocation of resources from the police to things like housing, healthcare, mental health resources, education, and the like.

As Choice of Games said in its statement, law enforcement in this country needs to be reimagined from the roots.

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If we spent half, and I do mean HALF, of the money spent on the police in the US on community resources you’d see an unheard of drop in the number of these “criminals”. When people standard of living goes up “criminality” is proven to go down. But that’s not what that powers that be want. That’s not how capitalism works.
And for you to have the AUDACITY to TELL me a BLACK PERSON to calm down?? Are you kidding me? I’m lashing out at the right people. The people I’ve seen be silent Time and Time again. And this is last time I will address you cause you have too much audacity for me. Pick up a book. I suggest all of Angela Davis works.

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Below are some resources on how to protest safely and what rights American and British protestors have. Although if you don’t live in the these countries please look up what rights your country has for protestors.

Stay safe everyone and let your voice be heard!

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I went through the Discord I run and I ran through American History to explain why this happened. But, I want to focus more in on the era of the US that you pointed out.

Reconstruction and its failure. Johnson, who succeeded President Lincoln was not an abolitionist, nor was he a true believer in the idea of what are now African-Americans being equal to white Americans. Same with the majority of Americans at this time. They disagreed with the institution of slavery, but they still did not see black or brown men and women as their equals.

Furthermore, many of the Union Generals wanted to occupy the South as an enemy combatant. Grant, while lenient to the rebel soldiers who he defeated outside Appomattox Courthouse was judicious in his attempts to defend Reconstruction, Freed Slaves, and fighting against the nascent White-Supremacist movements that were erupting. So what happened? If he was such a firm supporter of Reconstruction, how could it all fall apart.

Jason, was right to point out indifference, but the main blow to the Reconstruction Movement was disunity among the Republicans and the rise of anti-integration forces in the South. In the South, the Southern Democrats once again began to emerge as a political force. While, they couldn’t win the Presidency- they did secure congressional seats. Now, Hayes, a Republican does not win a majority of the electoral college. What this means is, it goes to a Congressional vote and Hayes in order to win is forced to end the military occupation of the south unless he gives up Reconstruction.

Now, without the Union Army in the South to both maintain order, Reconstruction died. Furthermore, without the Union Army in place to enforce the integration of the Freedmen into society, and the Republican governors and officials that were overseeing these policies it allowed bare coercion to keep the Freedmen from exercising their rights at the ballot box which meant that more Southern Democrats got elected into local positions and the policy of Jim Crow laws exploded.

Now let’s go on and expand on this a bit more: so yes, Reconstruction ended- but why did this viewpoint of the White Race being put before all others continue? Simple, America began to become an Imperialist Power. In the early 20th Century, like many of the white-nations in the world at the time, America began to create an Empire and expand Hegemony.

First, we went into Central America, the Caribbean, and South America. All hispanic and latino majority countries. Hispanic and latinos also cover black and brown populations due to them also being descended from slaves brought into the Caribbean and other countries to farm cash crops. Americans of all creeds began to accept the concept that America is a nation that is superior to everyone around them. We have a better culture, we’re more educated, we are more industrious, and we are a white nation. To White Supremacists, this viewpoint extended to their twisted minds that these simple facts are indisputable: the White Race since it is more educated, inherently superior genetically, and God himself has decreed this.

What does this mean and why is it relevant. Because, it is still being taught to this day. We are taught that America is the greatest country in the world, so on so forth. We push the notion that whiteness and America are hand-in-hand. That the only way to succeed as a minority is by embracing white culture and that’s how you become a “good minority”. On top of police reform, we need to continue to fight for equality and the concept that we are all American and all deserve the right to succeed.

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I can tell you right now that, no it doesn’t it alters police behavious but not always for the better, but since it’s “hip” and techy and will make hipster tech companies a killing they are far too often pushed to the detriment of more (cost) effective reforms to actual police and prosecution culture and methods.
Body cams can play a role, sure, but that role is in all honesty quite minor.

And while sometimes they may have restraining effects on police other times it is the exact opposite like Amserdam’s vice cops taking obvious joy in trying to catch people in compromising positions on the body cam footage…during the pilot programme for the things… that can turn police into walking infringements of whatever tatters remain of the right to privacy.

While I do support officers possibly wearing them during large events with huge crowds where the situation is confusing at the best times, on normal patrol they have, like most other policing tools, a near equal capacity to help or harm in any given situation.

Yep, that’s the gist of it, at best the footage might make either my job or that of the prosecution easier in certain cases. While there are lots of measures that can improve police fairness and effectiveness at the same time, as well as reduce the overall crime, body cams, from everything I have seen are at best a wash and the only ones really, constantly and always benefiting from them are the corporations that get to sell them.

Body cams are just another policing tool, not a panacea, and like all the other tools there need to be (better) guidelines on when and where their use may be appropriate and, no, I’m not in favour of the current approach of all officers always wearing them and having them be turned on all the time.

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OK, my two cents about this…

  1. The POS cop that killed George Floyd is the worst kind of scum who needs to be locked up and throw away the key.

  2. “Police have no duty to protect your life”? Well I wish someone would have told that to my uncle who died answering to a call about gunshots in a neighborhood street and was shot in the head. He would be still alive today. Same for all other cops who died in the line of duty. He died trying to protect innocent people, not for oppressing, extorting, or abusing civilians.

  3. To the person who said that the Police should be abolished, I have one question…ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?! Say we abolish the Police. What happens then? Who would keep crime off the streets, you? There would be anarchy everywhere.

  4. So according to some of you, the police are the ones to be blamed for the violence from riots? So people started to riot in Minneapolis and NYC by burning buildings, smashing windows and looting stores on their own because “the police made them do it”? Wow! Talk about shifting the blame.

  5. A retired St. Louis Police Captain, David Dorn, was shot and killed by a looter when he responded to an alarm at a pawn shop. Are you going to demonstrate for his murder since he was a person of color, or that only applies when the killer is a white person?
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/us/david-dorn-st-louis-police-shot-trnd/index.html

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Did you really just come on here to BLUE LIVES MATTER THIS TOPIC ABOUT HOW BLACK LIVES ARE SUPPOSED TO MATTER? That’s what you decided? That’s the decision you made? My People Are Going To Be Free In Spite Of Ya’ll And That’s Just On Period

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I’ll reopen once I have the time to respond to Ix.

@Ixionos has been suspended for their personal attack on @hiphiphooray, but I want to respond to their points.

  1. Well, I’m glad we agree on something.

  2. I’m sorry for your loss. However, your uncle’s death—and the death of other law enforcement in the line of duty—does not excuse the systemic racism and authoritarism that they enforce and perpetuate. This is what police stand for.

  3. What is crime? Really. There are property crimes and there are violent crimes. If you look at the list of things that I believe need to change, property crimes of the sort you’re imagining would vanish. If people have homes and jobs, why do they need to steal? If drugs and sex work aren’t illegal, they’re not committing crimes. That would also diminish violent crimes that are ancillary to underground economies–such as drug violence–pretty much leaving rape, domestic abuse, and other crimes of passion. (As well as all the white collar crimes.) The cops already suck at dealing with rape, domestic abuse, and crimes of passion, so getting rid of them wouldn’t really change that much. Putting systems in place that would respond to those crimes would produce much better results for everyone involved.

  4. Yes, the police are to blame for the violence. That, and our country’s four-hundred year long love-affair with white supremacy. To be completely clear: the police and the fire departments of Minneapolis allowed those buildings to burn in order to sway public opinion. They successfully defended the sections of town where the big corporations lived. They pushed the looters to the areas of town where immigrants and minorities have businesses, and then withdrew. This served two purposes: it punished the minorities for supporting the protesters, and it propagandized moderate whites to turn against the protesters. There are photos on Twitter of MFD stations, less than a mile from the fires, dark and silent.

  5. To begin, pawn shops should not exist. Pawn shops prey upon those people who are so desperate that they need to trade their prized possessions for, what, 15% of the value of the object? Secondly, if people had–as previously stated–homes and jobs, they wouldn’t need to be stealing in the first place. Third, why was a retired cop responding to a burglary alarm? What is so pressing about physical objects that they require risking your life? Nothing.

What you have done here is called “Blue Lives Matter”-ing. It is meant to trivialize and diminish black pain and black experience. It is inappropriate and offensive, and does not belong on these forums.

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That’s author and director Kim Latrice Jones, and it’s an excellent primer. Here’s her book with Gilly Segal if you’re interested:

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