Arthurian Tale: Camelot [153k] [Sep 29 2023]

I am in opinion that love need to be mental and physical, if only mental what’s the point? There is nothing to show, nothing come out of it.

It is somewhat counterintuitive to political marriage idea, the idea of political marriage is to make bond official by having a child that seal that deal thus this child will have blood of two family combined in a union, in this story this child will be unifying factor that in a way facilitate union between MC’s kingdom and Camelot.

It doesn’t address the core problem of the original story because having an illegitimate child and having none is similar in a way it left succession problem, without Mordred someone else will just fill the void.

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I mean it’s not only mental, they’re just not for kids. They approve of married couples sleeping together rather enthusiastically. Not having natural kids is not only a common choice but impossible for many couples anyhow.

Plus like the gay variations would need some magic fenagling or a third party to have a child too, the story sems more focusing on uniting disputing factions and pooling resources than an heir.

And if you don’t care about the kingdom going down to heirs than none is better than an illegitimate since that’s one more person who can dispute it despite your wishes.

And it could be waved away anyhow with like fountain of youth, holy grail, magic etc…

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But my MC is a female though, not sure about male MC but my MC is perfectly capable have one naturally, as for male MC I am not sure if the magic is powerful enough in this world, but I suppose something can be implemented to facilitate that, at least adoption can serve as last resort if it’s same sex union.

Either way even if there is complication down the line the official heir claim is much stronger than wanna be usurper this will give them better stability, the level of legitimacy is always legitimate child first, then illegitimate child could push it if there is no apparent successor and if they’re shrewd enough to have backing of political figure in the kingdom, in case of Mordred, Mordred doesn’t have political support but Mordred do have the claim to the throne, in feudalism it all that matters a claim to a title is what people need to push heir of their choosing and without clear directive from previous ruler this definitely will cause a problem.

Having no child and it will be free for all each of round table knight could claim they’re the rightful heir and some of round table knight is really stubborn, some outright ambitious, not to mention if there is cousins and far family branch they could claim it as well.

It may held for one generation but after that no one can say if it held or not, beside MC if not asexual will want heir regardless of pronouns or gender then what’s the alternative? Divorce ending the pact? Force/manipulate Arthur? Affairs behind Arthur back? This is just another Mordred in the making, while it’s true there is freedom in Camelot, it’s not free of consequences.

Either way excuse my rambling, this is author story it’s author right to make it to whatever they envision, it just regretfully I am not the intended audience for this.

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It’s selectable so not really relevant. Elaine is the female king Arthur. Plus being in a straight relationship doesn’t mean you can have a kid anyhow. Though probably not for this example since it’s just Elaine and Arthur with the restriction. Like you could just date someone else.

You don’t need a kid to set an heir though, you just need a will etc. Nevermind having more than one kids is problematic, and a catch -22 if the first doesn’t turn out well since at that point you’d need another one.

Plus this is going on the assumption that every monarchy is hereditary, when that isn’t true. Like for a popular example of elected monarchs are the holy roman empire. The byzantine empire didn’t have official hereditary laws (it was de facto tho), and naming someone before death was a normal occurrence.

Plus been a while since my last playthrough, but I think Mordred is not their kid in his version, especially given the ages.

And the succession crisis if it’s played that way will pop up even if you don’t date Pendragon anyhow.

Not sure since if I marry Elaine I just do the at least fake love route, but I’d assume since Arthur “if you bed her before you wed her, than you’re dead sir” Pendragon asks if you’re marrying with the idea of love being possible, so I’d assume they’re fine with us sleeping around in that route.

I mean mine is perfectly fine with it, unless a war happens or surprise usurpation , which are risks even with heirs, heirs are someone else’s problems in the first place. Plus given magic and the like being ace probably wouldn’t be a huge issue to wanting a kid, nevermind you suggested adoption before.

And finally if your main reason for having a kid is an heir, then you probably don’t value having a kid much. Which could be another one of Pendragon’s reasons for not wanting one.

Just to reiterate again, the other characters are fine with it anyhow.

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You said I don’t value having kid much? Just because I wanted a heir? What kind of nonsense is that? To have someone inherit everything I have doesn’t mean much? You got it other way around.

War can happen regardless but you missing the point that having a legitimate heir is decreasing the chance of having succession dispute.

If you have no problem with asexual, childless marriage then it’s all power to you, I don’t see it the same way, Marriage is commitment to see the need of both party fulfilled, it give and take relationship.

Monarch is mostly Hereditary, either way MC is also Crown Prince or Princess of their own Kingdom, if Camelot have different succession then my MC’s Heir will inherit my MC’s kingdom, MC inherited the throne after MC’s father death, this show at least MC kingdom have hereditary succession, if Camelot have different succession then at least MC’s heir is one of the candidate eligible to be chosen as successor, chosen or not is another problem for another day.

Need to reiterate that I don’t have issue of what kind of MC you’re making with whatever gender or pronounce or what kind of relationship you’re making, I am just commenting as far as story goes, I pick Arthur as traditional Arthur a male not Elaine (female version) my MC is female and like I said love is both mental and physical, if you’re playing asexual that’s up to you I don’t take issue with that, but to take away my choice is somewhat unfair.

Again this only prove my point that I am not intended audience.

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Not really, no. The actual idea of political marriage is to have a political union where one member (preferably high profile one, like a heir) of each family is effectively a hostage to ensure the arrangement lasts.

If there’s children you can then peddle for other political marriages then it’s a bonus, but it’s not what keeps the political marriage together in the first place (it’s the common interest)

It could be confusing wording on my part, but i meant the preferably high profile part to apply to “one member […] of each family”, not just one of them, period. As in, people in the political marriage are preferably of equal importance to their respective families.

The “common interest” can be simply making an ally out of potential enemy. If it also means getting support against some third parties, then all the better.

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But MC is not of lower station than Arthur though, MC is not Arthur subordinate, they’re crown prince/princess of different kingdom so in this case this marriage brought peace for two kingdom, then again political marriage or not it is still marriage, have a chance to make peace permanent here by having heir from union of both side.

Debatable about the common interest since each player have their own interest.

I do, but it’s not. Pendragon is the sex any % speedrun last I checked

They got magic birth control from what I recall and babies only happen from piv sex anyhow.

Generally having kids to carry your burdens isn’t seen as for the kid

Plus again heirs can just as easily complicate succession. Since you don’t exactly know if your kid will be a good fit or you may want someone else to succeed. And again this is a magic world so it may not be necessary.

Plus like even besides the hereditary thing Pendragon’s main claim to kingship is Caliburn.

Generally speaking if one person in a marriage doesn’t want kids you don’t get kids on purpose, and it supersedes wanting kids. And at that point you can split up if it’s unacceptable to you.

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Then again if this where it goes I am not the intended audience I suppose.

Generally if someone is celibate there will be no marriage to begin with, there is example of this in real life monarch, what’s the point marrying a priest or nun? There is no child or grandchildren? No thanks.

What burden? I don’t see ruling, parenting, continuing the legacy as burden, I see my kids as the future us parents are thing of the past, life always burdensome one way or another, run away from it doesn’t solve anything.

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They aren’t celibate. Again they’re the first one you have the opportunity to sleep with. And people get married all the time without wanting kids or having the ability for it anyways.

Ruling over people is definitely a burden, and now then it is going to control their life, they’re now in danger due to general royal shenanigans etc. it’s why there’s been irl monarchs who skipped over kids to give them a normal life. Living vicariously through kids isn’t a good look either. Anyhow it’s not their responsibility. You don’t purposely make your life more difficult to say you didn’t run away from anything do you?

Like this situation can be like the entire point of your conflict with your father.

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Hi –

Please remember to state your position on a topic and then move on to other topics.

Repeating positions creates a situation which often leads to thread derailment.

Thanks.

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You never heard saying nothing ventured nothing gained? Risk, difficulties, duty, responsibility is not something to avoid, it is how it is as an adult we have responsibility life is not always fun and games, sometimes we dealt bad hand in life and it’s up to us to do something about it.

You said people married without wanting kids, the problem here I want one, if the guy is not man enough to take responsibility then I guess It’s the end does it? Like I said before either force him, divorce him or just having an affair, do you encourage this behavior or what?

Again this only reinforce the idea those player that wanted to choose normal marriage life with Arthur is not the intended audience of this story.

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Will do

You are not on the same footing as Arthur. Your father lost the war he waged against Arthur and his kingdom is a vassal state in the story. In other words, they retain the titles they have basically out of politeness, not out of actual power. You, though (at least potentially) Arthur’s spouse are also (and well-known and accepted, in that time period) an hostage being held to guarantee your father’s good behaviour. You are very much in an inferior position to Arthur.

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Mc father lost the war in power struggle to obtain Camelot, no he is not a vassal of Camelot he is independent nation.

That doesn’t make any sense from titular title King a vassal to a King, we’re crown prince/princess of neighboring nation.

We’re sent to Camelot for peace between two kingdom, however Father is plotting to attack Camelot again and send us as a spy.

We’re not subordinate or a vassal state, we’re not hostage either, it is a ploy from the beginning, we’re sent in bid to become a spy it is a ruse from the start to make Arthur lower his guard and to read if there is weakness father can exploit read the story again, it is not titular title Arthur doesn’t invade MC kingdom, it is MC kingdom that invade Camelot.

Losing offensive war doesn’t change the border losing defensive war however will.

This doesn’t sound like we’re the vassal state, both MC’s kingdom and Camelot is independent state nowhere in the story we’re told or treated as a vassal.

The part I am interested is turning this political marriage into real marriage, it is a shame it turn to be childless union.

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That is the POV of the PC, as informed by her father and his advisors. Of course they’re not going to tell themselves they lost the war for Camelot. They’re still trying to fight it, as can be seen in the siege chapter (dependant upon player choices, of course.) They’re putting a rosy view on it and trying any number of things to retain and regain power. You don’t hand your heir over to the enemy (even as a spy) if you won. That would be like the UK “winning” a war against Norway and then “giving” Scotland to Norway instead of demanding that Norway cede territory to them. It doesn’t happen that way; if you are giving something up, even in a marriage alliance, it is because you are not the victor.

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No it is not there is no mention about vassalage or anything, even round table knight still think MC as foreign enemy.

There is no such thing as treaty to confirm it, nothing mentioned, all we know is MC father lost control of Camelot, not sure about the duke, that’s not important.

MC capital is not besieged no invasion of any kind, in this era territory change if invading army win, while we might lose the bid of Camelot we still have an army.

Father clearly said he lost control of Camelot, it is impossible someone as important as MC doesn’t know such thing as vassalage treaty.

Modern era wars and medieval war is different, fief change all the time that doesn’t mean someone goes to vassalage when losing war, if they lose badly have no army they might but MC’s father imply we do have an army.

We’re not giving up anything, we’re sent as part of the ploy as insider to spy on Camelot, because Father the ever scheming one deem it’s good plan.

Author clearly said to facilitate peace between two kingdom, King will not be a vassal to a King.

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This does seem to be the case. Checking through the code, nowhere does it state the protagonist’s father is a vassal or tributary neither is implied to be one. He’s at most a nominal ally to Arthur/Elaine who’s already planning to break the oath of his alliance with them.

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A marriage without children, it’s really funny because this marriage is a marriage to reconcile the two kingdoms.

A childless marriage means that both kingdoms have no trust in each other at all, and are ready to attack if the enemy shows weakness.

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From a political/alliance perspective Arthur/Elaine are shooting themselves in the foot. A marriage alliance lasts only as long as a marriage. But how likely is a grandfather or uncle to attack a country run by a close relative? Familial relationships won’t stop every war, but it’ll stop some of them. A sort of informal alliance. It also puts a foot in the door for future diplomacy and possible alliances

I hope Arthur/Elaine ends up with a really good reason for not wanting children. Because otherwise, they’re just shirking their responsibility. And they’re kicking the responsibility down the line.

“Sorry relative of mine who’s living a relatively normal life as a knight or noble or something. As your king/queen I’ve decided that it’s your job to sire and raise the next ruler of Camelot! Don’t you love new responsibilities?”

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