If someone asks to be referred to by gender-neutral pronouns, how does that hurt you?
You’re asking two separate questions. I’m not sure if that is your intention or not. One question is “can I be allowed to misgender a character?” and the other is “how do I create a gender-changeable character, a la Wayhaven Chronicles?” I would suggest you take the latter to the development and coding section—there’s pre-existing threads for that, I believe—and learn about how to be kind for the former.
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If you don’t like it, write your own game! 
That’s the beauty of choicescript and this forum, YOU can do whatever you like. But don’t bash another author because of a design choice they made. Regardless of your beliefs, you have to respect the beliefs and decisions of others. If you disagree, then make a story of your own that fits your views.
I hope to see a WIP from you soon!
True it could. The question is why should we? Authors see characters in specific ways. Some see them in either gender, others see them as a specific gender and or with a specific appereance. Why couldn’t we change it? Because it doesn’t fit our vision of the character and that should be enough of a reason why not to do it.
But you haven’t. Also, yeah customer satisfaction is key; to the target audience. Not you specifically. If the game doesn’t suit your preferences than it’s clear you’re not the target audience. You should research a game before buying it, check the forums here, ask questions about the npcs and if the game doesn’t align with your preferences, then move on to something else.
Btw, I’m not trying to be passive aggressive or rude here, just stating that those are your options for a game if you have such resistance to using They/them pronouns.
Personally I got used to them fairly quickly (then again I can easily adapt to most things) and even more so now that I have friends that use non binary pronouns. So for me it’s fairly easy and doesn’t take me out.
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So why can’t it be implemented and to be honest it seems to hurt rather than help with general customer response
For example the most popular COGs/HOG Wayhaven Chronicles, Samurai of Hyuga Series Choice of Robots and the recently released Vampire the Masquerade Night Road don’t seem to have a lot of they/them and have quite nice customer response as opposed to some recent releases
Gower
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You have had this explained to you several times now, and your desire is noted. It would be a wise idea to let the conversation move on at this point, as at this point it is just repeating the same thing over and over again. My Sauron-like eye is now trained on this thread.
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How could be a pro noun be political? How could be human rights and decency be considered political or something that have to be removed because it is not immersive.
In the college we studied in Legislative history Hitler Civil code. One of his megalomaniac laws trying to emulate Napoleon. It is superficially normal until you reach the part where Jews aren’t people, so they don’t have any of the rights in the law.
Each time I heard someone complain about the pronouns, I feel like they don’t respect people in general.
Because I don’t get what harm causes that people uses they them or Ze Zir…
Of course It can be easily code a patriarchal mode. But the whole point is integration nor patriarchy You can have patriarchy in the other 99% gaming industry
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on the point of pronouns that people are unfamiliar or uncomfortable with breaking immersion, it’s also like… why should the majority’s immersion (in this case especially, cisgender binary people) take so much priority over the minority’s immersion to the degree of erasing the minority’s representation?
It breaks some people’s immersion for a non-binary character to use they/them pronouns and for the narrative to do so accordingly? Ok, well it breaks my immersion when a game only has two gender options *for a player character since I don’t identify with the binary genders. It breaks my immersion if there’s a majority white cast because that’s not what I’m used to in my personal life or my preferred media. Every accidental or casually transphobic and heteronormative assumption or bit of storytelling in a game breaks my immersion. I just start thinking about the creator, whether this is malicious, ignorant or just boring, whether the game so far has enticed me enough to ignore micro-aggression #infinity in my life. Then it’s just a matter of time until I close the app with a bad taste in my mouth. figuratively speaking.
As far as I can tell, the biggest difference in catering to keeping my immersion vs. maintaining the other person’s immersion is being inclusive vs. engaging in erasure. so like…
once again, it’s a matter of respect!
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It seems everyone just wants to deliberately misunderstand the post. What am saying is variable gender options for each individual playthrough. I might select a character to be binary in my playthrough but that character could also still be non binary in another player’s playthrough. So once again options for everyone so that we can all enjoy an immersive playthrough
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ok, I’m lost. are you talking about romance options with gender options? because a giant number of CoG and HG titles feature exactly this. to the point where I would be surprised you hadn’t encountered it in any games yet. but that’s possible, so is that what you mean? have you not come across games that feature love interest NPCs where you can choose their gender?
and if that isn’t what you mean, are you asking about choosing the gender for an NPC that the player is not able to romance? Some NPC of secondary or tertiary importance that uses they/them or neo-pronouns?
'cause if you mean the first of those, that’s significantly different from the latter. if you mean the latter, then I don’t think anyone, myself included, misunderstood you. I don’t appreciate the assumption that I would purposely misunderstand anyone’s words on here.
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Eiwynn
183
To make things absolutely clear:
Asking to swap the gender of a non-romancable NPC by variable, because you are uncomfortable with using singular they and them pronouns is disrespectful based on exclusion.
This is not a valid ask of the author.
Romance option NPCs are often given variable pronouns that are scripted by the author out of respect for inclusion of their audience.
There is no equivalency between these.
This is the end of that particular discussion.
Please do NOT reply to a post involved in this recent discussion and do NOT reopen this particular ask.
Thank you.
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Abe
184
If it’s okay, i would like to ask for some advice for two different scenarios:
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i have a character who uses “siya” and “kanya”, which are gender-neutral pronouns in Tagalog. My problem is that i find it jarring to use a Tagalog pronoun in an English sentence.
Should i use different neopronouns for that character (which admittingly feels wrong to me already) or should i seek advice from multilingual individuals who uses a gender-neutral pronoun from their own language(s)?
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Any tips on getting rid of “referring to someone as it is weird/wrong” mentality when that person does want to be referred to as it? (Do note that unlike the first scenario, which is a writer’s scenario, this one is more of as a me-wanting-to-be-a-decent-person scenario)
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I would actually recommend sending this question to the Writing with Color blog on Tumblr–well, when they reopen the askbox (p sure they don’t take anonymous submissions, tho, so you’d need an account if you don’t have one). It also takes them a while to answer (i think i waited 3.5 weeks to have a name check published), but the blog has a decently wide cultural reach across English-speaking Tumblr. Between reblogs and people tagging friends who relate to the identity you’re looking to represent, it’s one of the best ways to field something very specific like this, imo. (The input I got for naming a Catholic Tamil person is stuff I honestly don’t know I would have found through research, if only because of the language barriers I frequently encounter for research on this character.) *or! if you find answers from other users under a different post related to tagalog, maybe you could find out if they’d let you consult with them a little. the internet!
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i don’t use “it” as a pronoun, so I can’t provide much of an opinion except… i would suggest featuring the character themself correcting or informing someone of their preferred pronouns. It would need to be directly addressed, by the non-binary character who prefers this pronoun, so that the audience understands this isn’t malicious or misgendering. but if you’re not non-binary, i… idk, i hesitate to say things like ‘xx ppl should never write xx ppl’, but… it wouldn’t exactly sit right with me for a binary person to write a non-binary character with this pronoun preference.
gives me the same vibe as a white person writing a black character who uses the reclaimed n-word, but then goes on to write this usage out repeatedly. ofc this is something some black ppl do but like… /squint what is this. if that’s something the character uses, but that is not language the writer has any business using, i’d prefer knowing about it as opposed to seeing it demonstrated. like if this person preferred “it” and a neo-pronoun and then the writer went on to use the neo-pronoun instead.
idk tho. someone else use words! 
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Abe
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i appreciate the link to Writing in Color blog. It would be a good resource if ever i want to have non-Filipino (and/or non-Manileño) characters in my stories.
On the “it” pronouns, i should have specified that it was a me-as-a-person dillemma and not a me-as-a-writer dillemma. i’m sorry for not making that clear in the first place and i do appreciate your advice on the matter. Thank you.
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i hope you find some use for the blog!
ah, I understand now. hm, I wish I could provide advice on that point… but yeah, I use they/them and I think i’d probably fall into the category of people with that mentality. I feel like I’ve glimpsed a post or two about this topic from people who use “it” floating around my general vicinity on tumblr… I’ll keep my eyes peeled for resources. there’s definitely people who use “it” on there, I’ll message you if I ever see anything relevant to your q 
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- I would just make sure to clarify that for the reader first. Otherwise I think its fine.
- Again, just explain it. If that is what your character wants to be referred to as, then have them explain that in game
Good luck and happy writing!
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hey as a reply to being uncomfortable with ‘it/itself’ pronouns
i used to also have an issue with them from a personal standpoint since unfortunately there has been instances when as a nonbinary (agender) i have faced the ‘you’re basically a robot’ trope from people that rather insult me rather than have a decent conversation, referring to the gender (or lack of hahah) as an ‘it’ as in reference to me not being of equal standing as the binary genders.
but overall it’s not my problem or job to police what other people’s pronouns are, and i would respect them as much as i expect them to respect mine . it doesn’t matter in the end about your own personal feelings , since it leaves a larger lasting and damaging impression if you just blatantly ignore and refuse to use a person’s pronouns, than it would be your discomfort when using them . just keep in mind that when it comes to other people’s pronouns it just is straight up not about you .
i don’t mean any of this to come off as rude , this is basically the attitude i told myself when i learned of people using ‘it/itself’ pronouns
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Abe
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@clementine, you’re right and i completely agree with you.
i just wish there is an easier way to get rid of my personal issues/discomfort because i hate it when my brain has an “odd but okay” thought instead of just going straight to the “don’t mess this up, me” thought.
@ielle, thank you. i really appreciate that.
it does get annoying when a person repeatedly asks for your pronouns since it kinda feels like they ain’t trying to remember them if that makes sense ? but also i would prefer someone who is unsure to ask me rather than to misgender me.
Human error happens. There’s not really anything to be done about it. Whether or not it’s annoying (which it can be) is immaterial to the fact that things like that are always going to occur.
I’m going to assume you’re asking this question with good faith because you’re honestly curious, but honestly, this line of questioning is something I find far more annoying. I’m going to assume you’re asking because you think these are things you might do, or things that might happen to you, and you want reassurance that you aren’t being a bother with it. So, in short: no, you’re probably fine. Most nonbinary people understand that there’s a learning curve, especially with neopronouns. I would rather someone double check my pronouns with me than try to guess them. Even the most well intentioned people are part of a cisnormative society and mistakes can and do happen.
That said. Whatever your intentions are, you ought to step back and reread what you’re posting it. Like I said above, I believe that you’re asking these things in good faith. But while you’re asking about what is and isn’t bothersome, you’re basically asking nonbinary people for pre-emptive reassurance that pronoun mistakes or slip ups or whatever else have you are okay. I’m not very interested in giving folks permission to not feel bad for not using my pronouns correctly. You should feel a little bad. Misgendering sucks. But that’s fine. Feel a little bad, then move on. Mistakes happen, and feeling bad about it is how you learn to not make that mistake again. The worst thing you can do is feel bad about it at the person you’re misgendering, because then they feel like you’re expecting them to comfort you, and they shouldn’t have to.
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Ah! Thanks for pointing that out. My apologies.
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