If new Arcadia doesn’t prevent current Arcadians from getting murdered, who else is going to do it?
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Does anybody else felt that Arcadians situation is similar to the Vtm Carthage ?
Of course he called them savages. They invaded without provocation and murdered their children. What did you want him to call them, uncouth?
As far as we know, Arcadia didn’t try even once for world domination. I have no idea where this is coming from.
They get murdered no matter what. They got murdered when they were invaded, they were murdered when Param officially lifted their slavery (under pressure from a foreign power), and they were murdered at the Silcur village again because reasons, I guess. There has been literally no situation other than “an Arcadian is in charge” that didn’t end up with Arcadians getting murdered without provocation.
I dunno VtM Carthage, but to me the best parallel is the Native Americans. Julius even talks about putting them in reservations (at somebody else’s expense, because heavens forbid Param ever take any consequences for anything).
Ok, you can’t try for anything “the second time” without having first tried it the first time. Also, as far as we know, Arcadia isn’t going for world domination - Thalia wants the Arcadian lands back and she wants to get rid of the Parami royal line so she can get rid of the magic-cutting sword. As far as we’ve been told, that’s the extent of her re: the world.
That’s… that’s not what hegemonia means. Arcadia, as far as we know, was minding its own business. It had no interest in dominating other lands. In fact, we KNOW they weren’t trying for hegemonia because if they were the Jovian Church would have never been a thing in the first place, considering it’s a complete polar opposite to the Arcadians Ishavak faith.
I mean, yes. If the consequence of “you aren’t in charge” is “you all get murdered without provocation”, then if you want to NOT get murdered without provocation the only solution is to, well, be in charge. And, again, as far as we know, this isn’t even the Arcadians goal.
Moral relativism is poison and needs to be taken round back and shot in the face, repeatedly.
No, it’s not, because when they weren’t antagonising anyone they still got murdered without provocation.
No, they did not, and I don’t even know why you’d think this. The Ishavak faith was still persecuted, Arcadians in Param were still getting murdered, and the only reason it wasn’t worse is because the Dynast had been running around Augur’s head in the past and in the present Mireil had mind controlled part of the government.
Because if they don’t go to war they get genocided anyway, so they might as well take their chances.
Because the government of Param is literally one dude who thinks that murdering a bunch of Arcadians isn’t a crime to be punished harshly, and therefore cannot be “infiltrated”.
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I didn’t say they tried world domination twice, I said they’re trying for world domination the second time, as in currently, after being defeated at the height of their power. Apologies if I was unclear.
And the solution to this is to try and become the world hegemon? For all intents and purposes, they were the world hegemon at the time of the fall, as, per Raegusa’s words, they “far surpassed their neighbors in wealth and magic” and “the invaders would have no chance, had Arcadian mages were given half a fair fighting chance”
You could indeed take the “they’re fucked no matter what might aswell kill as many Parami and Salantir as possible” stance but, honestly, I think not antagonizing literally every other country one way or the other even further is a good idea.
They had a really good thing going in Salantir when Sister started that stupid pointless war. Why not go that route again, infiltrate Salantir the same way, or some other way and take control again. Why not do it to Param aswell? Why go through with a war where you either have to win or you get genocided, for real this time, no survivors?
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I agree 100%; what happens to Arcadia is a really good example of what happened to the Native Americans; we even got guys like Geronimo fighting back with questionable methods yet he’s not seen as a bad guy now, just someone who didn’t want his culture and people to be slaughtered
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Good or bad it’s all a matter of a person’s perspective for those that live it and for those that come after. 
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This is why most people hate Arcadians they keep bringing up old grudges while the invaders descendant has to put up with this “same shit but different people” 
seriously Arcadians can’t be THAT perfect.
Lol, “old grudges”. Arcadians were slaves until about three years before you reach the Parami court (and they only got un-enslaved due to Mireil). And then they got genocided. Again. And after you reach the Parami court they get hit with a bioweapon, and the prince goes “well, that’s not really something that merits a harsh punishment, is it?”. And the Ishavak priesthood is still not allowed to heal people.
Yeah, nothing merits the label of “old grudge” like genocide and slavery from three years ago. /sarcasm
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see what i mean
Not so good for the mc, seeing how sister killed his best friend and cheated him out of his inheritance, but I get your point there. Ultimately however such an arrangement would have meant that Thalia would have had to share at least some power and executive decision making with other “allies”, in this case Sister, and Thalia really doesn’t seem to like power sharing or non-brutal methods.
High risk, high reward most likely in Thalia’s case. IF she manages to win she’d get to be the undisputed god-empress, a thing that cannot be achieved by more moderate methods, even if they are lower risk, more benign and lead to less lives lost.
@JBento
Calm down. Geez. No one is advocating that either Param or Arcadia is in the right here, but in recent times Arcadia definitely has more than good reason to see Param wiped off the map. Nor is anyone excusing what Leon did to MC. In my opinion, only Saine and Illya are innocent here, and that too is debatable.
As regardless, from what I’ve heard on Discord and otherwise, most people chose not to side with Meril. So Param and Leon’s attempt to clean up their mess by building a statue to the MC and basically martyring them after demonizing them just seems super insulting.
Again, this is my opinion. It is a GAME. You don’t have to respond or agree with it, just ignore it.
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Okay, since what I am saying apparently needs further clarification, even though I said this in the last one, no, I did not mean the Arcadians tried for world domination when their nation was around all those centuries ago. What I meant is that, they lost at the height of their, and that they are trying to somehow achieve world domination despite losing when they were in a much better position in their last war, when they got invaded.
You have to be incredibly generous to a group that’s been shown to be racist against non Arcadians to not see where the implications of Arcadia “standing as the tallest of all nations in Arvanand” goes.
Does Arcadia not trying to dominate their neighbors(which I find highly dubious, as they were the strongest nation in the area per their own admission, and nations are never ever just “nice” to eachother and mind their own business with a power imbalance like that.) change the fact that they were the strongest nation around, which is what Tahlia is trying to achieve NOW, and they STILL lost, when they had more power and knowledge than Tahlia could ever dream of having in the current situation?
Again, they were the strongest nation around and were at the peak of their power before. Now they are a shadowy organisation with a population base that’s been decimated by 300 years of genocide and opression, probably no industry, and definitely no army or the means to support one that can stand up to Salantir and Param alone, let alone with the two together.
We should just give them justification to kill ALL arcadians, for real this time, no dragging it out for 300 years, then. That’s a good idea.
The reason things were so shit for Arcadians in Param compared to Salantir was specifically because they didn’t have people infiltrating the Parami government, and Mireil was mind controlling the entire Salantir royal court, not just a ‘part’ of it. That’s as close to domination as you get, no war needed.
Instead of going for a war which can very likely result in Arcadians losing, given their situation should NOT lend itself to waging a two front war against two kingdoms who beat Arcadia before, they can do what Mireil did, which, as far as I remember, stopped killings in Salantir.
You have a really poor understanding of how any feudal kingdom functions, don’t you?
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Since Arcadians used to be the best at producing the best mages, wonder if they ever practice Blood magic or it didn’t exist at all ?. curious curious 
Any thoughts ?
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Uh, Canix and SneakyKiwi are definitely advocating that Param is in the right here.
Plenty of people are. Did you even read this thread?
Actually, I think the only thing everyone agrees here is that Ilya and ESPECIALLY Saine are good people. 
I’m not on the Discord, but do you mean Thalia here? As far as I know, there’s no way to not kill Mireil. Not that I’d try to find it, but still.
When every non-Arcadian power has enslaved and routinely genocided you, you can’t actually be “racist” against them.
And yet you can’t provide even a shred of an in-game suggestion that it wasn’t the case, even though if it were odds are Param and Salantira would have totally used it as propaganda to make themselves look better and you see no mention of it in the History files.
Which is why one of Thalia’s stated goals is getting rid of the magic-cutting sword, which helps level the playing field. Hells if I know the rest of her plans.
Definitely have industry. The Arcadians make a bunch of money from selling magical items (the Black Grail’s job is literally to find ways to improve the products you sell), and the MC even mentions at one point that they doubt New Arcadia has shortages of any type.
Name literally one noble that you’ve seen have influence over the running of Param that wasn’t the king. Leomar’s father ended Arcadian slavery at political pressure from Salantira. No other nobles are mentioned, or that he had to convince them. Julius is going to, again at pressure from Salantira and Salantira’s expense, put the Arcadians in reservations without consulting any Parami nobles.
I don’t recall reading any mentions of blood magic in the game, so maybe it isn’t a thing at all.
Didn’t you? Who’s this, then:
Did your account get hacked or something?
Also, bonus round, here’s you going “but maybemaybemaybemaybe the Arcadians were involved in evil blood magic, you guys” even though blood magic isn’t mentioned in the game at all.
I give your ACTUAL quote right after that (which you conveniently left out of yours), how am I “twisting your words”?
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Now that’s just low right there, I was only pointing out that most of the conflict came from Arcadia bad history with their neighbors, while why it even did the genocide happen, you didn’t see me waving "Param is right while Arcadia is wrong ".
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Now you’re just twisting my words
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I don’t think Canix was ever implying blood magic as evil? It was moreso a “Hey, these guys are top mages, I wonder if they ever experimented with blood magic which sounds interesting,” to me.
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See he gets it
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There’s literally just a glimpse of what Arcadia was doing pre collapse in the entire game so far, in an unfinished game, and if it weren’t there after the game’s completion I would argue against the author on this too. You can’t have a nation-state be the most powerful one in a region and not have them leverage that position, Nation-states don’t act like this, feudal nobility even less so.
They control a single city. That single city can’t possibly produce enough food for a continent spanning war, do enough metalworking for a continent spanning war, produce all the other supplies that war needs, etc. You could argue that, obviously, once the war starts some cities and towns are going to rebel and switch to the Arcadian side, but without that situation playing out we can’t say how much territory and resources the Arcadians actually control, or how much manpower for their army they have access to.
Name literally any noble from any country here that’s neither a main character nor that duke(Coincidentally I forgot his name, lmao) that was responsible for the plague. It’s very clear the game does not go into the details of politics of countries here to make the plot keep going, not because all these countries are literally just controlled by a single person or whatever.
I can’t possibly reply to this without it ultimately devolving into an IRL politics shitstorm later in the thread, so I’m just not going to.
No, I want Arcadians to gain their independence, and the killings and the opression to stop, obviously, but I have some concerns about the long term goals of Tahlia and the implications of them, as I have laid out I think 2 times here:
I don’t trust any organisation pursuing hegemony on principle, I do not believe the Arcadians can win the war they are pursuing to begin with, I do not trust the Arcadians to not use their now hegemon position to just reverse what they went through on the Salantir and the Parami.
I don’t like how the Arcadians treat MC at all, but that is unrelated to the “who is right, the parami or the arcadians” argument.
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I think this thread may be filled with psychopaths… (obviously not serious by the way) Many seem to be quiet apethetic to the fact that arcadia experience a large scale genocide and enslavement which lasted for quite a while, to say the least, because of not so great reasons, and hating on arcadia despite everything being quite justified. Sure, we may have suffered because of them. But dude, that’s nothing compared to what arcadia has experienced. Genocide and enslavement and suffering is normal for them, or until quite recently was. We are some random dude, and I do not agree with much of the arcadians things, but I dont think they want to destroy param or whatever. Our enslavement is not too bad, we worked and helped the people who caused them quite a lot of suffering and harm, us still having quite a lot of leeway while only being forced to do certain things doesn’t sound too bad.
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