On Leon ordering MC during the plague I felt it was more like doing it for them, so the MC don’t kill themselves trying to help and not simply just “I’m in charge, do what I say”. Basically it is an intervention like you do when your family member is addicted to drugs, only in this case it’s a hero complex. MC needs some tough love to get over their “problem”.
Yeah, sure, and Leon is obviously uncomfortable pulling rank on us, but that was the only way to stop his friend from overspending themselves. AGAIN. But even if we are to see every Leon’s action in a very ungenerous way, he still had the right to tell us what to do - that’s how military bands work and all.
Nah, just grab Eli and bolt. Let the murderous zealots (Arcadians) and peasant ingratiates (Param) duke it out. Might exchange letters with Ilya, Saine, and maybe Yurui but ain’t getting involved in their drama anymore. Done enough for both sides already.
Yeah, in the modern military the subordinate can have their own opinions and have the right to voice them but at the end of the day, it is a commanding officer who makes the call and they have to follow it, don’t imagine it would be different here. Leon may be MC’s friend but he is also the leader of the White Fang and of the whole country. And as you say he’s not comfortable pulling rank on MC.
I always assumed that the place that the Saintess was in, was warded by some “anti-spirit gate barrier”. With spells like Glyph of Magebane it’s not hard to believe that people can be prepared for teleportation magic, even though it’s basically banned.
You can still sigh it off as another thing that we couldn’t do because the plot needs to happen, but I already head-cannoned Ante into being super prepared for anything like she usually is, and she just putted a lot of anti-magic shit all over the place, so I think it works.
But now that I think about it it, the spirit gate problem can be fixed. For starters, MC travels back by carriage because they have to polish out the ritual they will perform. That way they are getting closer to the capital while still doing something useful. Then, right outside the capital let’s say they just finished preparations and are ready to heal Saintess. Next thing, they try to get to her by gate but can’t get a lock on Saintess for some reason. They in a moment identify An Artificial Barrier of Blockage around the whole building and decide to go by foot. By their attempt to gate, Ante is alarmed ( as she put the barrier in the first place) that something is afoot and rushes to Saintess. And the rest goes as it went.
Ah, a fellow Ante-is-not-an-incompetent-pest Team member, I salute you, good sir.
To be honest the whole thing with the Saintess is based on the fact that Mage just can’t explain anything. They just can’t. And if they can’t then they can’t plan to use their friends’ help, because their friends are not going to help them kill the Saintess without a good reason, they are good guys, you know. And you can easily headcanon that the Mage was extremely distraught so even if there was something more logical to do then just barge in and commit some crimes, they couldn’t think about that.
So… I know it has been all said times and times again, but I wasn’t there for it, so I’m saying it now because I am that kind of person.
Leon ends up the only person doing the right thing? Like Saine and Ilya are trying to do the good thing - to believe their friend, to save them from death, but who is going to bear the brunt of this decision? Not them, they know they are going to get away with a slap on a wrist. The only problem this part of story has, I think, is that it wasn’t established just under how much pressure Leon and the whole government is. Then it would be easier to judge how much was hanging on Leon showing that he is ready to do what must be done and doesn’t play favorites. Because we all would like the head of the country to be just and dutiful, no? And whatever investigation was possible to do just showed a varying amount of corpses and no explanations from the Mage whatsoever. And so the right thing to do is to punish the criminal - even if they are your best friend or the love of your life, because what else a good leader would do?
Don’t forget that Leon has basically legged it from a possible fratricide, because this is how Parami (is it the right word?) politics be like. Leon doesn’t like and prefers to ignore it, but he fully understood that his brother might have to make a decision to show his power and take out the competition - unless said competition throws the fight before it can even start and just disappears into the thin air. It can be that his idea of being a good king isn’t very far from the Mage’s martyr complex - you have to do what’s right for the country and it doesn’t matter how much it kills you on the inside.
And the war situation in even easier. There are a lot of people dying already and if the Mage doesn’t do the thing then everything has been for nothing. And so the commander of the military must make decisions that will preserve as much fighting ability of the army as possible and the king must free his country. Again, you really don’t want a king who shuns all his duties because his friend would be unwell then. A friend who is a royal retainer, I remind you, and kinda swore to die for the liege and all of that.
I could go one of three ways with it should the story permit it
just take over everything and kill anyone who stands in my way (Also known as “operation no more mr. nice guy”) I really hope Illya and Saine don’t stand in my way
solve this stupid war and bring about peace between both sides, then just be done (Also known as "operation ‘you get one more then I’m retiring’)
Reconcile with Leon, save Param (Also known as “operation punch Leon in the face until I feel better”)
Well, I assume the MC avoided using Spirit Gate because it costs a lot of mana, which, as we can see in Book 2, easily causes near mana exhaustion on F, and the MC needed all the mana they had to undo the detonation spell.
LOL. Took the words right out of my mouth. Eli fans forever.
Hmm. Not sure if the church is protected from magic, since the MC can cast Glyph of Slumber on the entire squadron of paladins to put them all to sleep. I assume the MC avoided using Spirit Gate because it consumes a lot of mana.
he has to threaten the mc to do that? the mage isn’t even insisting on staying here they’re objecting to a plan that has only just been posed. they haven’t broken rank except to voice that they don’t want to leave. i think pulling rank immediately instead of trying to reason with them was extreme. they were already outvoted what good does “param is unkind to retainers who have opted to shirk their duty” add in this case?
To be fair, it’s not hard to guess that the mage was gonna keep trying to help until it inevitably killed them. Cutting them off at the pass and pulling rank does seem better than letting them become dead set on staying. Not the kindest thing, but the mage has put their life in peril 3 times (that we know of, 4 counting Leon’s veal) prior to this for the sake of others, I doubt they would stop to see reason on their own
you’re exactly right that this is leon’s point of view during the war, and as a third party observer, i dont fault him for it. he’s right that this is his duty. but this part of the story takes place in a personal context as much as it does in a political one. from mc’s point of view, i think it would also be fair to look back, post-bbq specifically, and ask “how much did i mean to him really all this time?”
we don’t really know what an investigation would have uncovered bc we know they never do one. two huge players in world politics are involved here–one dead, one soon to be–and no one wants to know more. it seems like they could have at least figured out mc was in salantir those months they were gone if ante’s spy network is as good as we’re led to believe.
the bigger sticking point for me as a player here though is that doing an investigation that fails is a lot different than not doing one at all. leon doesn’t say “something about this is fishy to me, but i’ve done everything i can, and i can’t prove their innocence. there’s nothing else i can do.” he doesn’t really try to do anything. all we know that he does is go to mage, who can’t tell him anything. If you tell him so, he doesn’t seem to believe you.
we also know that he doesn’t make the decision to execute the mage out of resignation–he doesn’t carefully think it over and decide there’s no other way to appease the church/populace–he does it as an emotional response because he feels he’s been betrayed. he’s angry at the mage and doesn’t think clearly.
for the record, i love that leon does this. it’s a fantastic choice, characterization-wise, that makes him really interesting to me. i just don’t think it was actually the right move here, politically or in terms doing right by the mage, but that’s just my take. it’s fun that everyone can look at this part of the game and see something different.
Let’s not forget, the last time a tragedy struck Param, MC immediately disregarded Ilya’s recommendation to rest and fessed up to everything in their past no matter how much it distressed them. MC is no stranger to exposing their deep trauma and reasoning for doing what they’ve done. So for MC to be so tight lipped about something like murdering the Saintess because…? It’s weird. Too weird. And I know that, for Leon, the decision was half based on emotion and half that the church was going to handle MC themselves. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
He also had no qualms about MC throwing themself into extremely dangerous situations any other time. Not the bandits and most definitely not the war where every time the phantasma was used, they ran the risk of dying. I’d be more keen on believing Leon pulled rank for MC’s safety if he literally did it anywhere else as well. Staying in the plague ridden village they were protected from just a little longer so MC could think a tad more about the situation is where the line is crossed?
It’s that last bit where I have a hard time believing he did it for MC’s safety when he could have just said it was for MC’s safety that he pull rank. I don’t think Leon meant it in a horribly malicious way either. It’s such a strange power move, I wish MC had the opportunity to comment on it given he never does it again.
Unrelated, but I’d like to see what happened the week leading up to the mage leaving for the lab after the victory banquet. Would they be acting like a recluse or overcompensate and be super friendly.
Unrelated, but I’d like to see what happened the week leading up to the mage leaving for the lab after the victory banquet. Would they be acting like a recluse or overcompensate and be super friendly.
I imagine this would depend on the Mage’s personality mostly. An outgoing Mage would be more so, since they know their and all of Sienan’s lives are on the line, while an introverted Mage would be mostly quiet and worrying about the bomb.
I imagine the Mage would fend off any remark on their behaviour as tiredness and pain from the fight with Sister, so nobody would think their behaviour to be strange.
I do have to question how much of the MC’s “hero complex” is unjustified. Hero complex implies we’re irrational. Frankly, we’re REALLY good at this. I feel like people toss around the term “hero complex” to anyone with selfless inclinations willing to put effort into helping them. Like, I’m sorry, I thought we were adventurers specialized in taking jobs that no one will take for pocket change. I don’t think any of y’all get to say I have a hero complex. And you know what? It works really well. A lot of people are really well off because of the White Fangs.
My mc would have emerged from the spirit gates with the kids with the smuggest grin on his face as he passed out.
I’m addicted to angst so for me it’s a hyper fixation on saving literally everyone even when it’s impossible. My MC will never be free of it because they carry those dead villagers, the fallen soldiers in the war and the Saintess like a millstone tied to their neck. Nevermind they did all they could, it’s never enough for them. Knew an EMT from college like this. They burnt out. It’s a fun archetype though.
And that is honestly why sometimes you need to admit you’ve done everything you could and have to stop because otherwise you will become a casualty as well.
My MC is just self aware enough that she knows that burning herself won’t save someone else, but it’s a delicate balance and it weighs heavily on her.
I think it shows just how many ways you can have your MC go.
I get that. It’s just I’ve seen the “you can’t save everyone” message in a lot of deconstructions these past few years and I’m getting a bit tired of it. I want a reconsideration. Sure, maybe I can’t save EVERYONE, but I’m still gonna shoot for the moon. Even if it’s not everyone, it’s a heck of a lot of people.
Basically someone who knows exactly how hard it is to be the big hero who solves lots of major crises, but instead of toning it down they just start getting really good at strategy.
The Saintess’s room was warded, you have to melt your way through the ward to get to her. I’ll give the author the benefit of the doubt that ward was also proof against spirit gates.
So if the Reborn Mage had just spirit gated in front of the room they’d risk alerting the paladins as you melt through the ward.
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