A Discussion about 'Justice'


#1

Hi all.

Recently I have been thinking about the concept of Justice; in fiction, real life scenarios and in regards to the law, and have come away from the experience with a bitter taste in my mouth. I have become dissatisfied, partly I believe, due to the handling of a concept synonymous with fair-minded and impartial treatment, which has seemingly been translated (at least within as far as many modern media portrayals are concerned) into an excuse for revenge or ‘scapegoatiness’

It does not seem unreasonable to me to have an action merit an equal and just action in return e.g Work hard and receive just compensation, or cause hardship/ harm/ etc and receive equal retribution (hopefully that acts in a positive manner, either discouraging further acts or serving as a form of rehabilitation bla bla bla.)

It does however seems to me that people are becoming desensitised to the idea that a person on the receiving end of ‘Justice’ is truly a person, instead society circles like baying dogs, the master has let loose on the hunt, ready to tear into what ever is presented to them as fair game.

Perhaps I am just growing disillusioned but I will try to give some examples.

A) There was a show on Tv (probably Animal Channel, I don’t remember) about animals being recovered from situations usually after being cruelly treated or neglected or something like that. What struct me as most concerning is that yes while the owners were rounded up and prosecuted or not on a case by case bases it was often the vets who were crying out for blood the hardest. This is a veterinarian whom has been trained to heal and care for lives saying that the owner deserves to be ‘Shot’ ‘Locked Up and Never Realised’ ‘Starved’ ‘Beaten…’ This person is a second responder not present when the animal was captured and not aware of all the details and yet is willing to throw these terms at the cameras as if Justice was all that was necessary to allow the reactionary cruelty they want to perpetrate against another human being.

B) Populised/ Widely known court cases where people travel from miles around just to stand outside of the courthouses and knowing barely anything except what biased media has told them hurl abuse at the accused, or putting it more extremely taking vigilante action (e.g spray painting potentially slanderous/ slurring messages on the house of the accused.) against the person before they have been judged before a court of law . And why would the people do this… Why because the accused deserved it, they were told this was a bad individual and so all action against them are just if done by a righteous citizen such as they.

C) People that committed crimes 40 years ago but where never caught and new evidence crops up condemning the now elderly, that potentially have little time left and may (caveat) have been good and virtuous in the 40 years since, to be thrown into the tumultuous often times very unpleasant area that is the legal system. Without any sort of amnesty situation this again seems a cruelty done to perpetuate the concept of justice.

I feel after writing this down that I haven’t spoken my piece very well and seeing my thoughts written before me understand how each could be argued but such as it is…

I am curious on the thoughts of you all on the concept of ‘Justice’ and whether any of you believe, as I do, that it stands equally balanced between just/equal behaviour and revenge/scapegoatiness or reactive cruelty.


#2

There’s no such thing as Justice.

The world’s an unfair place and there’s nothing you can do about it.

Deal with it.


#3

Be that as it may, Justice as a concept ‘Does’ exist and it is fed to society and as such one would hope that it at least used a positive force, especially as it is such a prevalent theme in media and law.


#4

Well I mean it exists in a sense. As in, you can only have justice if you have money. However, there is no such thing as “True” justice.

That’s how I see it anyway.


#5

I think the problem with the concept of justice is that like many things, it’s opinion based. One mans justice is anothers revenge as it were.


#6

My family comes from Germany. My mother grew up in between Germany and England. Once, staying with a friend and her sister in a small town near the coast as an adult, she saw a Nazi group meeting being held.

Yes. Nazis. Not neo-Nazis. Old Nazis. In wheelchairs, on little canes, hobbling about on sticks. Proudly performing the Nazi salute to one another, unrepentantly jeering about the “state of modern society”, sharing racist propaganda.

Are these people to be “let off” because they are old? No. They are certainly unrepentant.

There is no such thing as justice as a universal concept. It is taught to us as a society, like everything else, and differs throughout time and culture. The media does pervert to keep the status quo using racism, sexism and dehumanising tactics, I will say that, though.

But… “frontier justice” for me, is stabbing an animal abuser. Oh yes. I’ve seen 'em. I’d kill 'em if I met one in person. Rapists, too. Domestic abusers. “Justice” is doing nothing and standing idly by until you’re bribed in this day and age. I know their types. They come round here, I kill 'em.

If a person is an asshole this is deserved. I would set the dogs on the racist, sexist, transphobic, etc. In this day and age, we see everything. You can’t hide your bullshit now.

Which is why I like to not take everything the news says at face value. I research everything I can on both sides or parties and also from a neutral perspective before making a decision on a popular case or conundrum.


#7

George Lucas made a fortune extolling this point :stuck_out_tongue:


#8

I can accept this. A true and just action would be hard to quantify anyway.[quote=“Laguz, post:6, topic:23242”]
I research everything I can before making a decision on a popular case or conundrum.
[/quote]

This is good to hear. [quote=“Laguz, post:6, topic:23242”]
But… “frontier justice” for me, is stabbing an animal abuser. Oh yes. I’ve seen 'em. I’d kill 'em if I met one in person. Rapists, too. Domestic abusers. “Justice” is doing nothing and standing idly by until you’re bribed in this day and age. I know their types. They come round here, I kill 'em.
[/quote]

This is harder to make sense of for me as it clashes with my up bringing. Are you not murdering and action that in and of itself invites an individual of a similar mind to come and dispatch you in a similar method. Or is it hyperbole and just to convey sentiments extolling the virtue of a frontier justice which cannot live happily in the same world as my ‘True Justice’ I always struggle to consolidate that which I have grown up knowing and information that flies counter to it and yet must seem just as normal to the person providing the counter info.


#9

You probably are American and so for a common law system based in punishment rather than rehabilitation. But is not the system everywhere.

I am from Spain a total contrast from your system here is all about rehabilitation. And THERE IS NOT JUSTICE AT ALL HERE. I studied laws. And rapists have free vacations from jail to see family that obviously use to rape again There is the case of a rapist that rape five more women and kill two during their sentence. No perpetual prision either and crimes has a date of consumption. Like a yoghurt. And of course not death sentences. Here criminal has all the rights and victims are scared.

Justice is an ideal that never existed. Becaise is abstract and depends of culture. What would be Justice two hundred years ago today could be an aberration like slavery.


#10

Yeah, sure. That’s what happens in the real world anyway, duh. You just have to kill them before they kill you.

What’s all this talk about “true justice”? There’s no true justice. No one justice. Just individual personal morality, which is taught to us by society. Free will is a lie.


#11

Date of consumption? Is that like statute of limitations?


#12

Isn’t true justice supposed to be punishment befitting the crime regardless of standing and wealth?

Though it’s precisely for those reasons it doesn’t exist.


#13

This is my line between fantasy and real life, I need not kill anyone ever. Why would I want to? [quote=“poison_mara, post:9, topic:23242”]
You probably are American
[/quote]

Australian, but minus the death penalty I assume it is much the same between the systems…


#14

Good, you’re living in a stable situation in a good neighbourhood and no vendettas or threats against you, your job and house, your property, your friends or your friends’ children.

Some of us are not as lucky.


#15

This is true, I will not apologise for it, but I understand your point


#16

Yeah, common law. In continental law (Europe except England) Each crime has a time were could be prosecuted when it ends even if the criminal Write a book about I DID IT you can’t judge him. Nowadays they are trying to make terrorism. Assassination of children and pederasts be persecuting forever. But today only Genocide and kill the president or king is including. That is terrible for families and victims know x admit the crime and never were condemned.

Both systems are unfair because are unbalanced. or few regard the supposed guilty or few for the victims.


#17

One side of me says “equal treatment, even if it means the death penalty”, but the other side of me says “locking up should be enough”.

But, that aside, one thing I really don’t like is people going around beating up/harassing wrongdoers on their own, without receiving punishment themselves.


#18

I suffered a rape attempt and i was capable of resisting it. And believe when i said when someone try something against you with a knife, hell if you fight back. I even don’t denounce the pedo. Police warn against it because he could denounced me a twelve years old of beating him. Here our laws are a joke.


#19

Revenge is an act of anger that a person does just to punish an individual. Justice is lawful and impartial and serves to uphold society’s ideals. It keeps society in line. People might avoid doing things they don’t personally think is wrong, but don’t want to face the negative consequences of their actions.

Attacking someone when it does not accomplish anything and the people who dished out that justice knew it would ultimately not accomplish anything is not justice.

If an animal hoarder makes their animals live in horrible conditions, but they are living in the same conditions. They would not learn anything from going to jail. They need help on a mental level.

It’s like the difference between disciplining a child and child abuse. Justice is discipline and the person receiving the justice should know what they did is wrong or at least understand why they are being punished.

For C, there was a cowboy Bebop episode that dealt with this. Old people can still be lucid and you don’t know that they’ve been good, only that they haven’t been caught. I understand that statutes of limitation are necessary because there is no concrete evidence left over time. If a person is senile, you couldn’t do anything to help that person, but a lucid person should still receive justice If there is evidence because wrong doesn’t turn into right over time.


#20

I’m completely against the death penalty. First of all you’re not letting a person repent if you do decide to kill them (and there have been cases of people who have been killed and then found out innocent), and secondly if they are that bad death is too easy and quick a punishment.

Here’s a link of a few of the last statements by people on death row.

I am for better punishments, though. Who was it? The Romans? Who would crush a male rapist’s balls between two rocks? Bring that back, please. It solves the problem. Better yet, just cut off the dick. Do it. Problem solved better than prison. Maybe that would discourage cis men at last.